Resurrection Or Reincarnation? Whats The Difference?

[unipax]

A minister once told me that in the Document (I like that) there is a reference or two to reincarnation, and that other references probably were removed. One reason for removal was so that slackers would not decide to kick back and enjoy multiple chances.
Maybe it was in the old testament. I'm not sure.
It was just one sentence. I dont remember the actual names. It was simple: "Jack was Harry". I think one of the names was Moses.

[Norval]

Resurection Or Reincarnation? Whats The Difference?
Guess we need a dictionary to look at this difference?

[unipax]

I can see both happening.

**********************

[Norval]

Maybe these will help? I only know of the resurrection as spoken in the Document.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection

[unipax]

Thank you.
Those Wikipedia definitions match my understanding of the two words.

IMO either does not exclude the other from being part of what is, or could be. That is why I say I can see both.

Resurrection to me is just an ability I'd expect of JC. No surprise there.

Regarding reincarnation ...
To me it makes sense as a system for soul growth as in acquiring experiences and feelings that are not available in the discarnate condition. Soul growth being the objective. I heard somewhere that spirits choose incarnation for (among other reasons) the feelings ie emotions, pains, etc available to the human being. I do not see that reincarnation is necessarily the one system for everyone, as there could be other systems too. Like maybe some people will choose to 'step off the wheel' (of reincarnation).

Related, I also heard that as a 'growth tool' inbetween incarnations, we get to (or are guided to) experience / feel whatever feelings / experiences that other people experienced as a result of our choices, actions / intentions etc

Speaking of soul growth I am reminded of a piece written by Don Harkins which he titled "Slavery and the Eight Veils". He wrote it after pondering why so many people simply will not or cannot see "the truth".

I am not sure about all of Harkins' view, but a while ago it helped me with the issue of 'Why dont people get it?' It also helped me with dealing with the smirk often seen on people's faces when they encounter conspiracy theories etc
I'm guessing maybe Earth's Banner members have already seen it. Here it is anyway, maybe some have not seen it. It would make a good thread on its own. I will put it here for now since IMO it also applies to this subject of reincarnation. I think Don Harkins publishes the Idaho Observer.



From the December 2001 Idaho Observer:

Slavery and the eight veils

by Don Harkins

Over the last several years I have evolved and discarded several theories in an attempt to explain why it is that most people cannot see truth -- even when it smacks them in the face. Those of us who can see “the conspiracy” have participated in countless conversations amongst ourselves that address the frustration of most peoples' inability to comprehend the extremely well-documented arguments which we use to describe the process of our collective enslavement and exploitation. The most common explanation to be arrived at is that most people just “don't want to see” what is really going on.

Extremely evil men and women who make up the world's power-elite have cleverly cultivated a virtual pasture so grass green that few people seldom, if ever, bother to look up from where they are grazing long enough to notice the brightly colored tags stapled to their ears.

The same people who cannot see their enslavement for the pasture grass have a tendency to view as insane “conspiracy theorists” those of us who can see the past the farm and into the parlor of his feudal lordship's castle.

Finally, I understand why.

It's not that those who don't see that their freedom is vanishing under the leadership of the power-elite “don't want to see it” -- they simply can't see what is happening to them because of the unpierced veils that block their view.

All human endeavors are a filtration process. Sports is one of the best examples. We play specific sports until we get kicked off the playground. The pro athletes we pay big bucks to watch just never got kicked off the playground. Where millions of kids play little league each spring, they are filtered out until there are about 50 guys who go to the World Series in October.

************

Behind the first veil:
There are over six billion people on the planet. Most of them live and die without having seriously contemplated anything other than what it takes to keep their lives together. Ninety percent of all humanity will live and die without having pierced the first veil.

The first veil:
Ten percent of us will pierce the first veil and find the world of politics. We will vote, be active and have an opinion. Our opinions are shaped by the physical world around us; we have a tendency to accept that government officials, network media personalities and other “experts” are voices of authority. Ninety percent of the people in this group will live and die without having pierced the second veil.

The second veil:
Ten percent of us will pierce the second veil to explore the world of history, the relationship between man and government and the meaning of self-government through constitutional and common law. Ninety percent of the people in this group will live and die without having pierced the third veil.

The third veil:
Ten percent of us will pierce the third veil to find that the resources of the world, including people, are controlled by extremely wealthy and powerful families whose incorporated old world assets have, with modern extortion strategies, become the foundation upon which the world's economy is currently indebted. Ninety percent of the people in this group will live and die without having pierced the fourth veil.

The fourth veil:
Ten percent of us will pierce the fourth veil to discover the Illuminati, Freemasonry and the other secret societies. These societies use symbols and perform ceremonies that perpetuate the generational transfers of arcane knowledge that is used to keep the ordinary people in political, economic and spiritual bondage to the oldest bloodlines on earth. Ninety percent of the people in this group will live and die without having pierced the fifth veil.

The fifth veil:
Ten percent of us will pierce the fifth veil to learn that the secret societies are so far advanced technologically that time travel and interstellar communications have no boundaries and controlling the actions of people is what their members do as offhandedly as we tell our children when they must go to bed. Ninety percent of the people in this group will live and die without having pierced the sixth veil.

The sixth veil:
Ten percent of us will pierce the sixth veil where the dragons and lizards and aliens we thought were the fictional monsters of childhood literature are real and are the controlling forces behind the secret societies. Ninety percent of the people in this group will live and die without piercing the seventh veil.

The seventh veil:
I do not know what is behind the seventh veil. I think it is where your soul is evolved to the point you can exist on earth and be the man Ghandi was, or the woman Peace Pilgrim was-people so enlightened they brighten the world around them no matter what.

The eighth veil?
Piercing the eighth veil probably reveals God and the pure energy that is the life force in all living things-which are, I think, one and the same.

If my math is accurate there are only about 60,000 people on the planet who have pierced the sixth veil. The irony here is too incredible: Those who are stuck behind veils one through five have little choice but to view the people who have pierced the veils beyond them as insane. With each veil pierced, exponentially shrinking numbers of increasingly enlightened people are deemed insane by exponentially increasing masses of decreasingly enlightened people.

Adding to the irony, the harder a “sixth or better veiler” tries to explain what he is able to see to those who can't, the more insane he appears to them.

Our enemy, the state

Behind the first two veils we find the great majority of people on the planet. They are tools of the state: Second veilers are the gullible voters whose ignorance justify the actions of politicians who send first veilers off to die in foreign lands as cannon fodder -- their combined stations in life are to believe that the self-serving machinations of the power-elite are matters of national security worth dying for.

Third, fourth, fifth and sixth veilers are of increasing liability to the state because of their decreasing ability to be used as tools to consolidate power and wealth of the many into the hands of the power-elite. It is common for these people to sacrifice more of their relationships with friends and family, their professional careers and personal freedom with each veil they pierce.

Albert Jay Nock (1870-1945), author of “Our Enemy, the State” (1935), explained what happens to those who find the seventh and eighth veils: “What was the best that the state could find to do with an actual Socrates and an actual Jesus when it had them? Merely to poison one and crucify the other, for no reason but that they were too intolerably embarrassing to be allowed to live any longer.”

Conclusions

And so now we know that it's not that our countrymen are so committed to their lives that, “they don't want to see,” the mechanisms of their enslavement and exploitation. They simply “can't see” it as surely as I cannot see what's on the other side of a closed curtain.

The purpose of this essay is threefold: To help the handful of people in the latter veils to understand why the masses have little choice but to interpret their clarity as insanity; 2. To help people behind the first two veils understand that living, breathing and thinking are just the beginning and; 3. Show people that the greatest adventure of our life is behind the next veil because that is just one less veil between ourselves and God.

[Gale]

To me it makes sense as a system for soul growth as in acquiring experiences and feelings that are not available in the discarnate condition. Soul growth being the objective. I heard somewhere that spirits choose incarnation for (among other reasons) the feelings ie emotions, pains, etc available to the human being. I do not see that reincarnation is necessarily the one system for everyone, as there could be other systems too. Like maybe some people will choose to 'step off the wheel' (of reincarnation).

Related, I also heard that as a 'growth tool' inbetween incarnations, we get to (or are guided to) experience / feel whatever feelings / experiences that other people experienced as a result of our choices, actions / intentions etc


Reincarnation sounds more like a demon wanting to continue their fascination with human feelings, emotions etc.

[unipax]

interesting, thnx
may I know your view please, if not reincarnation?

[Norval]

, , , and I thought that was very clearly stated?


resurrection

[unipax]

, , , and I thought that was very clearly stated?


resurrection

Where? I did not see it as clearly stated.

Unless you mean this, which I took differently:
"I only know of the resurrection as spoken in the Document."

I thought resurrection involved dying, so ...

Are you saying you gotta die then be resurrected rather than reincarnated?

If not that way, how are you applying resurrection here ?

[Norval]

Try reading the Document?!?!, , , ROFLMFAO :lol:

[Norval]

Yes, one has to die to be "brought back to life", that part should be obvious. But, to be brought back to life without ones full memories would serve no purpose. We learn from our experiences and build upon them for wisdom. Then there is the aspect of being reborn as a cow, crow, or some other life form, , !?!? WTF is up with that shit? That makes about as much sense as a fish without a bicycle.

To be brought back to life with ones full memories and experiences intact would provide a continuation to build upon. Who amongst mankind would ever want to come back as a bird, fish, or what have you? This so called "reincarnation" is never mentioned in the Document that I know of. There are many that would lie and deceive others into thinking that it does though, for obvious reasons.

While some may "think or believe" there is life or consciousness without a body they are only being deceived and lied to based upon advanced technology being used to make ones think that. What a deceptive way to get someone out of their body willingly so some other entity can assume control and ownership of it. Possession is a reality that few know anything about.

I find it quite remarkable that the word incarnate and reincarnation is now more often heard than resurrection, , , , , now why is that? FOCLMFAO Same tactics, just another day of lies and deceptions.

[unipax]

Yes, one has to die to be "brought back to life", that part should be obvious. Sure, but when I asked about that I was puzzled due to context, not realizing just exactly what you meant in context at that time. But, to be brought back to life without ones full memories would serve no purpose. We learn from our experiences and build upon them for wisdom. Yes, and as I understand it, that is the point with reincarnation, ie gaining experience, wisdom, compassion etc from serial life experiences until one no longer needs more, and 'graduates' so to speak, meaning of course that consciousness / spirit does not die with each physical death, and the memory of other lives is not fully conscious in each life, but it is subconscious. Thats the theory I understand. The claims of proof of reincarnation include kids that speak of their prior families by name and description in a distant village that they have no way of knowing. Of course that is disputable and I certainly wasnt there to see it. One could also claim that such 'proof' is the work of demons or BETs. Perhaps you already know all this and more about reincarnation theory, maybe more than I have read about it. Then there is the aspect of being reborn as a cow, crow, or some other life form, , !?!? WTF is up with that shit? That makes about as much sense as a fish with out a bicycle.

To be brought back to life with ones full memories and experiences in tact would provide a continuation to build upon. Who amongst mankind would ever want to come back as a bird, fish, or what have you? I cannot answer for all of mankind. Is there a rule of reincarnation that requires being a bird or a fish etc, or would such be optional choices as in free will ? Maybe in the reincarnation / karma system, a person who polluted a waterway would later get to be a fish or a seabird or a person living in polluted water etc, ... and not necessarily in that order ie you might be an abused spouse in one life and be the abuser in a subsequent life. I think the way it supposedly works is that inbetween lifetimes we assess and decide what experience we 'need' next, with guidance from our angels who of course would be good ones. My understanding is that as we gain wisdom and compassion we become more humble and harmless, and tend to have lifetimes that inspire and uplift or simply serve humanity, such as people who are considered 'saintlike'. This so called "reincarnation" is never mentioned in the Document that I know of. Well, the claim is that biblical references to reincarnation were removed. I dont know. I'm just saying. There are many that would lie and deceive others into thinking that it does though, for obvious reasons.Maybe so. I just began searching it and saw that it is disputed. So I dont say it is so, and BTW I am not here to sway or disrupt. I came here because I already saw there was war in our solar system, and I liked what I had read of your work. I was just sharing my thoughts about reincarnation in the thread about spirituality etc. Now I am responding to your remarks, as in having a conversation.

While some may "think or believe" there is life or consciousness with out a body they are only being deceived and lied to based upon advanced technology being used to make ones think that.Thanks. That is a key point for my understanding your position. I did not realize that was part of your view. Of course reincarnation theory fails if there is no consciousness apart from the physical body. So OK I get it. What an deceptive way to get someone out of their body willingly so some other entity can assume control and ownership of it. Possession is a reality that few know anything about. Yes. I can see applying such possession scams to things like astral traveling and other "out of body" things which present opportunity for possession of a live body. But I dont see how that would apply to reincarnation believers if it is true as you say that there is no consciousness without a living body ie the demon or BET would want a living body to possess, correct? And the person just died like everyone else so thats the end of their story until resurrection?
I could be missing something you already said. What would that be please?


I find it quite remarkable that the word incarnate and reincarnation is now more often heard than resurrection, , , , , now why is that? Maybe remarkable because its geographic / cultural, ie not Asia? FOCLMFAO Same tactics, just another day of lies and deceptions. OK maybe the BETs or demons (which? same thing? ) planted the reincarnation idea way back when it started. How old is the belief in reincarnation anyway...(not that longevity equals credibility)...?

BTW
Dont get it wrong, I am not defending or pushing reincarnation. I think my original statement was that it makes sense to me.




*********************************************

[Norval]

ahhh ok, well all I can speak of is what the Document says.

[Gale]

An interesting movie to watch is Fallen with Dansel Washington.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=WcMi-lKL6mo

[unipax]

An interesting movie to watch is Fallen with Dansel Washington.
thnx
I agree that Fallen angels, demonic possession etc are a real part of our world.
I can see them possible in almost dead people or fresh corpses, or asylum patients, or substance abusers, or politicians, ie all kinds of opportunities even including that someone might just open themself and invite possession. Cults do that.

But I am not sure how possession / demons apply as a refutation of reincarnation, or as an expose of reincarnation?

Because in reincarnation theory, there are no fresh corpses. Nor is there a nearly dead person to possess.

In reincarnation the theory as I understand it is that:
* the body dies.
* it gets buried or burned or rots away or whatever.
* the spirit / consciousness / soul ( you / I ) survive
* you return some number of years later in a newborn infant, with an updated lesson plan.

And yes I do see how a demon or fallen angel / BET / whatever could also come in as a newborn.

What I am not getting is how reincarnation is necessarily refuted by the existence of demons etc.

In other words I see that it both are possible, without invalidating reincarnation. And, like anyone else, people in a reincarnation system could also be susceptible to possession.
Come to think of it, concern about demons etc is also common in reincarnation belief, such as buddhism. Meaning that while they have a robust traditional reincarnation belief system, they also recognize possession / demons are a concern. Indeed in those Asian cultures, public acceptance and awareness of possession is openly acknowledged more so than in our culture.

Again, I am not here to make waves. However I would like to understand your position more than I do so far.

[unipax]

I wonder what percentage of humanity is subject to some degree of possession?
A high percentage perhaps.

[Norval]

Its good to think about such things, , I think anyway, , :)

[Gary]

Most of us are about to die, no doubt, however we are given hope, we will be brought back, with no more pain, death or tears and we will live for ever if we come through the test in a 1,000 years time when the devil will be let loose!
If I understand what I read in the Bible/Document!:bananen_smilies029:

[unipax]

Its good to think about such things, , I think anyway,

well, this conversation has me thinking about it

[unipax]

I'm still thinkin about it
............................

[unipax]

Why?

I ask why because ...
Presuming in (hypothetical) context that the reincarnation theory applies to most or all people.... I think, if I may presume, that you would then be saying that most or all of us would / could be a "demon wanting to continue their fascination with human feelings, emotions".

furthermore as I understand it;
a) demons dont discriminate, They prey on all people in all cultures and all belief systems. Therefore it (demonic possession) would not be unique to reincarnationists.

b) in reincarnation cultures, people go about their existence recognizing that demonic possession is a concern along with monsoons and mudslides and taxes.

c) in our culture little is said about possession. We are told to fear other stuff instead like "islamists", home schoolers, "the other", and food co-ops.

Please understand I'm really wanting to understand why reincarnation seems incompatible with your system.

Do you 'demonize' it because it is not in the Document ... or do you see it as excluded by resurrection ? (I can see both being compatible with each other BTW)

Please know that I consider the claims that reincarnation may have been removed from the document. Not that I necessarily believe them, but I question everything until reaching a point I am comfortable with. I look at 'why' it might have been erased. That makes me want to explore both sides of the issue ie why reincarnation might have been erased, and why it might have been invalid / never mentioned to begin with.
I am interested because so far, I do not see anything ominous about it and as I indicated earlier it makes sense as a system for eternal souls gaining experience and wisdom over eons.

BTW I dont care if reincarnation is valid or not. I'm actually good with resurrection, but as I said I can see both being valid. It is just that I want to understand when someone makes a statement on big issues, and this one qualifies as that IMO.

To simplify / clarify, here is a question:
Do you 'demonize' it only because it is not in the Document ... or because you see it as being excluded by resurrection, or for other (?) reasons ?

I guess I'm just asking you to please elaborate on your first comment re demons reincarnating

thanx for listening

[Heretic]

John the Baptist being "Elijah come again" is one "reincarnation" observation and there are a couple of places in "the document" that tout a "reincarnation" interpretation. But when it is all said and done it was only done (or controlled) by the ETs. I don't see strong support for the masses having this reincarnation as a “standard life death cycle” but there was a definite focus on resurrection.

Reincarnation is an ancient concept that was has touched near every religion in some way. Many world teachers have been claimed as "someone" come again, so that no doubt brought questions to mind. There was a guy named Origen that basically brought the concept of the "pre-existence of souls" to Christianity around 200 A.D. as head of Catechetical school of Alexandria. He was removed from his post and banished from his city of residence because of his controversial teachings.

These new ideas of pre-souls or incarnations blended well with waning pagan religions that observed reincarnation so there was an infusion of “reincarnationalism” during this time period when structured written doctrine was lacking for Christianity. Due to this "infusion" you will still find reincarnation in Christianity today in many of the Gnostic observations, as well as some early orthodoxy. The Roman Catholic Church ended any tolerance for it at the Second Council of Constantinople in 553 A.D.

Reincarnation made quite a stir in the 60s and brought some eastern new age gurus to the forefront of pop culture.

[Gale]

Why?

I ask why because ...
Presuming in (hypothetical) context that the reincarnation theory applies to most or all people.... I think, if I may presume, that you would then be saying that most or all of us would / could be a "demon wanting to continue their fascination with human feelings, emotions".
Bit of a bizarre statement. Back up a bit, we know from the Document that the Dragon went after the woman’s seed, so the main target for harm, disrupting their life, even death would be the Called Ones; anything to keep the Called Ones from finding out about themselves. So demons would target a Called Ones family and all those around them. I have seen that exact thing happen several time, actually many times.
Therefore, your statement A is false; there is a method to their madness.

furthermore as I understand it;
a) demons dont discriminate, They prey on all people in all cultures and all belief systems. Therefore it (demonic possession) would not be unique to reincarnationists.

b) in reincarnation cultures, people go about their existence recognizing that demonic possession is a concern along with monsoons and mudslides and taxes.

c) in our culture little is said about possession. We are told to fear other stuff instead like "islamists", home schoolers, "the other", and food co-ops.
Oh come now, fear home schoolers, how bizarre is that.

Please understand I'm really wanting to understand why reincarnation seems incompatible with your system.
You need to investigate Skinwalkers and Walk-ins.

Do you 'demonize' it because it is not in the Document ... or do you see it as excluded by resurrection ? (I can see both being compatible with each other BTW)

Please know that I consider the claims that reincarnation may have been removed from the document. Not that I necessarily believe them, but I question everything until reaching a point I am comfortable with. I look at 'why' it might have been erased. That makes me want to explore both sides of the issue ie why reincarnation might have been erased, and why it might have been invalid / never mentioned to begin with.
I am interested because so far, I do not see anything ominous about it and as I indicated earlier it makes sense as a system for eternal souls gaining experience and wisdom over eons.
Look at 2nd Esdras, it was removed from most Western cultures Bibles because it holds a major key for understanding the Document. That key is technology. If, I state IF there was anything that could be misunderstood as something like this that you are asking about, that was eliminated from the Document the reasoning would because it revealed too much information; too much information about those demons and Lucifer and their methodologies. The Book of Enoch is another good example of an eliminated book, it adds more information about those fallen angels/BET’s, what they did and where they are today.

BTW I dont care if reincarnation is valid or not. I'm actually good with resurrection, but as I said I can see both being valid. It is just that I want to understand when someone makes a statement on big issues, and this one qualifies as that IMO.
You must care, your wording says so, such as ‘big issues’. It is all religionese, whole entire religions have grown up around this concept that is actually a non-issue if one would just clean off all the religious dogma.
To simplify / clarify, here is a question:
Do you 'demonize' it only because it is not in the Document ... or because you see it as being excluded by resurrection, or for other (?) reasons ?
I am not demonizing anything.

I guess I'm just asking you to please elaborate on your first comment re demons reincarnating

thanx for listening

There is technology that can target an individual’s brain; it can leave the individual with a memory of an entire scenario complete with smells, tastes, and all the attached sensations. The technology can be calibrated to give an individual a vision or even a faint memory of someone’s life, such as someone that lived in say the 1800’s or 1500’s.
Take a look:
Institute For National Security Studies (http://earthsbanner.com/Images/nonlethal.pdf)
Systems of Surveillance (http://www.well.com/user/jmalloy/gunterandgwen/resources.html#weapons)

Medical science has established through implantation of major organs that there is a cellular memory. The recipient of the transplant displays something inherent to the donor. Cellular memory is also handed down from mother and father to the embryo/fetus.

So like I posted, religionized, take a concept, blow it all out of proportion, give it a label and what you got, a religion.

[Gale]

John the Baptist being "Elijah come again" is one "reincarnation" observation and there are a couple of places in "the document" that tout a "reincarnation" interpretation.

Heretic
Not once is the word reincarnation used in the Document. The Document does not state John The Baptist is Elijah reincarnate. Elijah was taken and alive so that means John was an Elijah-Like One and the third Elijah to come we know from the Document will speak with a different language (tongue) than the first Elijah.

[unipax]

Thanks Heretic and Gale for your thoughtful responses. That is what I was looking for. Plenty to work with.
(btw I should have mentioned the thing about fearing home schoolers and food coops was tongue in cheek)

[unipax]

The technology can be calibrated to give an individual a vision or even a faint memory of someone’s life, such as someone that lived in say the 1800’s or 1500’s.
Take a look:
Institute For National Security Studies
Systems of Surveillance


Thnx G.
I have heard of this stuff. Nothing surprises me anymore. Its been a while since any of this surprised me, if it ever did. I think that they have technical and other capabilities that some can not even dream of, and these things would only be explained as 'magic' by people that are not aware of what is going on.

[Heretic]

Heretic
Not once is the word reincarnation used in the Document. The Document does not state John The Baptist is Elijah reincarnate. Elijah was taken and alive so that means John was an Elijah-Like One and the third Elijah to come we know from the Document will speak with a different language (tongue) than the first Elijah.

well I fully agree, I hope my post didn't come across as supportive for reincarnation, as I was just trying to denote its appearance in Christianity and how it got there. The John the Baptist example is the bread and butter of reincarnationalist as they lean on that verse the most to support their claims.

One of the other ones is the mention that the man blind from birth was paying for his own sins, yet it always boggled me why they chose a "question asked by his disciples" as a proof when JC's reply in no way supports the reincarnation ideology. Rose colored glasses I suppose.


I think that they have technical and other capabilities that some can not even dream of, and these things would only be explained as 'magic' by people that are not aware of what is going on.

Yeah ancient technology seems to answer many ancient phenomenon. I have read that they now use memory altering tech on employees who work on sensitive black projects so that most cannot even remember enough of what they are working on much less leak it to the public. Is this why we are lacking in whistle blowers from the post 80s era, in comparison to the massive amount we have otherwise?

[unipax]

so that most cannot even remember enough of what they are working on much less leak it to the public. Is this why we are lacking in whistle blowers from the post 80s era, in comparison to the massive amount we have otherwise?

good point, I hadnt thought of the post 80s shortage.

plus simply killing them (like the microbiologists) or threatening their loved ones.

[Norval]

I think this topic should get some more attention. :)

[Dragon]

The human mind ( spirit, life force ) is energy.
Energy can not be destroyed, only changed.
Or perhaps transferred to a different dimension as a whole.

Resurrection ?
Reincarnation ?

I read not long ago, that ancestral memories, could be locked up in DNA.
I guess that could be Reincarnation. of a sort.

[unipax]

I think this topic should get some more attention.
-Norval

Okee Dokee
Right off the top of my head,

Within the theory of reincarnation as a system of learning and 'soul growth'........
There is this little tidbit which I picked up somewhere along the line.

It sounds like a way of steering oneself toward making better choices in future by becoming very (intimately) familiar with the results of one's past behavior.

Here it is

After we 'die', we review our recent incarnation and we get to feel the feelings that others felt as a result of our actions, choices, decisions, words, behaviors etc.

Also there is the usual meeting of guardian angels / guides / loved ones etc.

I imagine that I would be drawn to repeat behaviors which caused good feelings in others, and to avoid behaviors which caused pain after feeling it myself.

It made sense to me when I learned that victims of bigotry / discrimination/ etc generally tend to avoid abusing others in the ways they were abused.
Of course, there may be some of them who instead want to inflict on others what they suffered. That, I guess, would be about about another part of the learning process in the theory.

Respect of others versus disrespect is a simple guideline that comes to mind.
Another is the realization that even a word or even a facial expression can be abusive.

[sfth13]

Yes, Unipax I read the same info somewhere I forget where... about 6 years ago when my mom passed I serched the web looking for stories of people with out of body expierences people that have died and come back and had stories of a bright light just cause I needed to know anything about what possibly happened to my mom after she left....I remember the one site I was on saying that we agree to come here and forget who we really are and have all our so called powers taken away... like not using our entire brain or our DNA being scaled down.. so we can learn compassion and feel pain and the emotion of hurt...or as you said soul growth. Basically this story went on to say that life here on earth is like going to school. we are here til we graduate no mater how many life times it takes.
But then we have the document that states something different. so all i can say is we'll find out soon enough. everybody has their own ideas what happens after you die if you come back / reincarnate or you rest in peace until the big guy returns and you are resurrected.. either way is fine with me cause the thought of abosolutely nothing after you die is kinda scary...

[Gale]

I remember the one site I was on saying that we agree to come here and forget who we really are and have all our so called powers taken away... like not using our entire brain or our DNA being scaled down.. so we can learn compassion and feel pain and the emotion of hurt...or as you said soul growth. Basically this story went on to say that life here on earth is like going to school. we are here til we graduate no mater how many life times it takes.


I hate to post it but that sounds very much like what those cast out spirits called the Legion would say when they are cast out of one body to then go to another body or even have a blank body grown for them.

[sfth13]

I agree Gale.. I was just posting what I found at the time while I was looking.. ..there was so much of all the same stuff.. but I tend to believe the resurrection. as I read more and more..but like I said we really won't know till it happens.:bananen_smilies046:

[whitecrow]

The human mind ( spirit, life force ) is energy.
Energy can not be destroyed, only changed.
Or perhaps transferred to a different dimension as a whole.

Resurrection ?
Reincarnation ?

I read not long ago, that ancestral memories, could be locked up in DNA.
I guess that could be Reincarnation. of a sort.

Good thoughts. I think we see through a glass, darkly...but for some, the light is becoming brighter.

I do not think we are immortal. I think there is the possibility of being destroyed. But mostly, I think we come back to this density for a variety of reasons. These may include learning, but also teaching and helping. I do not think everyone reincarnates. Some may choose a different density or dimension to return to.

It's also occurred to me that this earthly life is like a roller-coaster...scary as hell while we're riding, but afterward we get in line to do it again.

When my daughter was just about two, she woke one night from a bad dream, and I went in to comfort her. She told me a story of another life, described the people she associated with, her house, her life, and dying in a fiery car crash. She described the ambulance and the doctors in the ER working over her body...and she said, "Then I rose up like a balloon, Daddy, and then I came here." I never forgot this (though she has), and I have never believed a two-year-old could possibly invent such a story in such detail, full of things she knew nothing about.

I've had glimpses of a past life, and I was once regressed under hypnosis. Maybe I'll write about that sometime.

[zorgon]

I wonder what percentage of humanity is subject to some degree of possession?
A high percentage perhaps.

All those that believe the Document without question :pickinonme:

[Bobbi]

Actually, Zorgon, your statement could encompass just about anything, anyone or any topic. Just replace the word "Document" with "government", "teachers", "parents", "eye-witnesses", "science" etc. etc. etc. It's the "without question" part that needs examining. Because questions are asked, are we able to find many of the answers not otherwise readily obtainable or understandable.

[Norval]

It's the "questioning of that Document" that has kept me going for thirty eight years now. :)

[Dragon]

"Then I rose up like a balloon, Daddy, and then I came here." I never forgot this (though she has), and I have never believed a two-year-old could possibly invent such a story in such detail, full of things she knew nothing about.
As children we have no limits. :rainbow:
We loose this as we grow, we are taught limits.:banghead:

[whitecrow]

As children we have no limits. :rainbow:
We loose this as we grow, we are taught limits.:banghead:

You're right. By the time she was five, my daughter barely remembered the place she called Tormonto, and was embarrassed when it was brought up. By seven it was gone from her memory entirely. She's a brilliant and charismatic girl of sixteen now.

[Zenbuoy]

Very nice, everybody.
Pardon me while I break this up for a momentary thought.



a) demons dont discriminate, They prey on all people in all cultures and all belief systems. Therefore it (demonic possession) would not be unique to reincarnationists.




Ok, please continue.

[Norval]

Muddling through the concept of "whatever you want to call it" the basic point is the establishment of a "conscious awareness" in some kind of "physical" form. While I do enjoy my human form, I can at least conceive of other "bodies" that could become my physical form. Awareness of "one's self or individuality" came at about 4 or 5 for me.

While I have no recollections of past lives, I am pretty sure this is my first as I will explain a bit more later, there are those that do and I accept some of them as truth and real. Some of the ETs have lived for centuries and millennia, same bodies or not, as I can accept the premise that there exists the technology to transfer one's collective traits of individuality (soul, whatever) into a "body". There is that point about "possession" that, given the technology, could explain alot.

Whenever I hear of someone having past lives, or multiple personalities, the red flags go up as the probability of bad ET involvement is high in those cases. The term, to sell one's "soul" to the devil, may have more truth in it than meets the eye. Is that even in the bible Document? :)

[unipax]

Whenever I hear of someone having past lives, or multiple personalities, the red flags go up as the probability of bad ET involvement is high in those cases.

Sure, and the possibilities also include people like Edgar Cayce, the "Sleeping Prophet" as he was popularly labeled. He talked of past lives, Atlantis etc.

I dont know for sure, but I dont see any red flags around him. His work seems to be all good, as far as I know. He gave us tons of good natural health info.

On the other hand, ya never know. Maybe he was a BET wearing a good guy disguise.

Official site of Edgar Cayce' s A.R.E. - Association for Research ...
ARE Official World Headquarters of the work of Edgar Cayce, considered America' s most documented psychic. ARE was founded 1931, Virginia Beach, Virginia.
www.edgarcayce.org/

[Norval]

Unipax, you bring up a good case about Cayce, this also brings up others like Nostradamus and so on. My red flags are showing on these as well. There is the possibility that some of those "bad ETs", that were thrown down by the head honcho bad ET in the past, may have had a "change of heart" and have tried to do some good. That would, of course, have to be taken into consideration when it comes time for their "judgment". Gale and I have discussed this aspect for some time now. Good points.

[whitecrow]

Reincarnation" is one of those buzzwords. People confuse it with transmigration of souls, or metempsychosis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metempsychosis). Those who are horrified by the plain sense of Jesus' words "you must be born again" feel obliged to interpret the phrase, and no doubt some of the interpretations have value. One can indeed be "born again" in ways that are not physical. Nevertheless there's nothing unbiblical about reincarnation.

As I understand, in reincarnation the conscious identity is forgotten, while resurrection refers to the return of the same conscious entity. The distinction with regard to John the Baptist would be that he was a reincarnation, not the resurrection, of Elijah.

[Gale]

in reincarnation the conscious identity is forgotten

Not entirely, they claim to have memories of past lives, even visit places they claim to have lived and identify who they were.

Don't forget the technology exists to plant memories with all the emotions, feelings, smells associated with that memory.

[Norval]

I can understand where some of this "Document stated resurrection" vs "reincarnation" could get mixed up. Granted, this is exactly what the bad ETs would want to do, muddy the waters as much as they can.


"Metempsychosis" is a philosophical term in the Greek language referring to the belief of transmigration of the soul, especially its reincarnation after death. It is a doctrine popular among a number of Eastern religions such as Buddhism, Jainism and Druzism[1] wherein an individual incarnates from one body to another, either human, animal, or plant.[2] Generally the term is only used within the context of Greek Philosophy, but has also been used by modern philosophers such as Schopenhauer[3] and Kurt Gödel[4]; otherwise the term transmigration is more appropriate. The word also plays a prominent role in James Joyce's Ulysses, and is associated also with Nietzsche.[5] Another term sometimes used synonymously is Palingenesia.

While some may accept the return of a human, or even ET, consciousness in a plant, bird, fish or beast, I do not. Nor can I accept the idea that one would not remember their past experiences in which lay the mistakes not to make this time around. Totally illogical to me. It is a self defeating philosophy, nothing more than a fanciful idea. (Like I ever thought I would enjoy being a cow, , ohhh that's right, you don't have any memories of before so you won't care.) IMHO

The Document clearly states what the resurrection is, as WhiteCrow mentions;

"resurrection refers to the return of the same conscious entity."

Resurrection is the restoration of a conscious entity (human or ET), "soul", into their dead body (after repair?) or a restored, clone, body of like kind. This is logical to me as we would have all the memories and experiences of our past life to draw on and the physical properties and extremities to continue learning and experiencing as we were.

Life everlasting is another Document statement for those that prove to be good neighbors and so on. No more death by old age or sickness. This is a technology of the ETs. It also explains why some of those stories of "past lives" may well be true. They are either bad ETs, or there is a connection to a bad ET of some kind. :)

[Norval]

Well, now that we have batted the "Resurrection Or Reincarnation" question about, for over three months, what have you learned?

There are many that just won't be able to understand the differences between them, "the delusion" keeps them from comprehending. For those that can see the difference, the choice is simple. Believe the broad base of lies, deceptions, and uncertainty offered as reincarnation, or the simple explanation of the Document about being brought back to life with all your memories, emotions, and body intact?

Some posters here have tipped their hand and want to keep their lies and deceptions going, even in this forum.

What should be done about them?

[Gale]

I would follow the example already given us in the Document. Throw them down.
But into the pit section where they can rant, rave, dispute, fight among themselves or eventually have a change of heart. I don't know if that is at all possible at this late a date and how could any of them fight against the "delusion" as it would be a judgment that has already been handed down to show the division of those that serve our Creator and those that don't.

So, do we allow the deceivers, liars and twisters of words to mingle among us? Obviously not.
Banning them wouldn't allow us to observe them. An analogy, keeping them at arms length. They could continue to post in the prison pit or not.


Combined Bibles
Malachi 3:18
RSV with Apocrypha
Then once more you shall distinguish between the righteous and the
wicked, between one who serves God and one who does not serve him.
New RSV
Then once more you shall see the difference between the
righteous and the wicked, between one who serves God and one
who does not serve him.
King James Version
Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked,
between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.


Romans 3
5 But what if our doing wrong serves to show up more
clearly God's doing right? Can we say that God does
wrong when he punishes us?

[Norval]

<<<<<<<< bump>>>>>>>>> bumpity bump