Questioning The Holocaust [Archive]

unipax

02-19-2009, 10:08 PM

Questioning The Holocaust

I saw the following quote somewhere and decided to make a topic of it:

....
"I've noticed some anti-semitic posts. For example, holocaust denial...but maybe there is some truth to that, I'm not sure"
....

Well, I recently looked into "Holocaust Denial".
I'd like to share some thoughts on it. But let me say that my interest is not about proving there was no holocaust. For me it is more about learning about massive psyops, how mass mind control (9/11?) could be possible. If during such an inquiry it is seen that for example the holocaust has been misrepresented, well, stumbling across some truth is OK.

Here is what brings me to this issue: I read some claims of holocaust denial. They make some plausible points, so I think; holy shit, could that really be a scam.... something as big as the holocaust?

So I get intrigued about 'why scam?' and 'who benefits?' ... and here we are.

First, I have noticed that denying, or questioning the holocaust is often automatically linked with antisemitism. I dont always see that linkage, although it is true in some instances.
As a matter of fact, that linkage could be a little bit red flag / fishy when it is just 'automatically' presumed that questioning the holocaust is antisemitic.

That linkage reminds me of how knee jerk ridicule has been successfully designed to discourage serious inquiry into UFOs and related topics.

In the same vein, someone recently wrote a great article about how a 'Stop Sign' has been placed on the intellectual highway. This new stop sign says: "CONSPIRACY THEORY....DO NOT ENTER!"
It is of course understood by the sheeple that if they enter there, they risk ridicule and they risk being banished from the flock.
That is the purpose of the sign.
So they close ranks and they safely smirk smugly at those wacko conspiracy theorists. This strategy has helped protect mass murderers from prosecution.
Bush said "Pay no attention to outrageous (9/11) conspiracy theories".
These tactics have worked, so far.

Does linking antisemitism to "holocaust denial" discourage rational inquiry by implying "ANTISEMITISM....DO NOT ENTER." ...?
I say yes it does. But dont take my word for it. I have observed it operating in the minds of others, in conversation, just like the Conspiracy Theory Stop Sign.

I prefer to describe it as "holocaust questioning". There are camps, survivor accounts, pictures, tattoos etc.
My hunch would be that if anything crooked is going on, the holocaust could have been exaggerated, as in a scam designed to benefit someone.

Of course there definitely are some hateful people claiming the holocaust didnt happen. They are in my antisemitism file.

That is not the same as simply exploring the claim which says the Holocaust truth might be different than what is generally accepted via personal survivor accounts and reports from official sources. (official sources = TPTB.)

Another thing is the passing of laws against 'holocaust denial' and the jailing (yes jailed) of authors of books questioning the holocaust. Whats up with that? Those developments are big red flags, to me.

..............

I'd like to offer something I read regarding a part of this general subject of anti-semitism. Here it is:
"Would you say that investigation of the Mafia is anti-Italian?"

Suppose that the holocaust is misrepresented .... and suppose some Jewish people were involved in the deception....

"Would you say that investigation of holocaust scammers is anti Jewish ?"

..............

Well, thats what I got so far. This stems from learning to question just about everything we are told, especially the big stories that shake a lot of minds. I know it is a hot topic, kinda like another minefield. It interests me because of the profound implications, ie what it means if the holocaust has been intentionally misrepresented.

What you think?

Norval

02-20-2009, 09:27 AM

Question everything, then make up your own minds, but be prepared to change it later, , :)

unipax

02-20-2009, 03:34 PM

Seems like this journey is often about changing mind ie following the threads of truth while navigating the layers of disinfo and scams.

Bobbi

02-20-2009, 04:24 PM

Another search into varied independent histories all over the globe regarding individuals, businesses, governments and religious figures will reveal who did, in fact, benefit from the actual containment and slaughter of millions of people from many different races, religions, lifestyles, eye color, you name it - not just the Jews. Yes, there was an agenda, there were many and most made a very handsome profit from their involvement - in some cases from initial concept to it's inception. Was it a scam? Damn Straight!!!! Lots of them, working concurrently with each other, hand in hand. Here's a few names that had their dirty little fingers deep into this inhumane conduct we have come to refer to as the Holocaust:

Henry Ford (manufacturing)
The Vatican (gaining of wealth, world dominance, etc. etc. etc. etc.)
Bayer Pharmaceuticals (Zyklon B gas)
Prescott Bush (financing)

The list goes on and on and on. There's official documentation of it all over the place. Understanding, of course, that in order to support the premise of the Holocaust being a figment of the world's imagination, it is necessary to destroy as much of the paper trail as possible.

The scam isn't about whether or not it occurred, (just exactly how does one explain the millions of people who simply disappeared from the face of the earth!!!!!!!) but rather how the real perpetrator could manipulate all those he needed to achieve his goal - his one and only goal - to search out her seed and destroy it once and for all. The one who is actually in charge of all PTB here on earth. Revelation 12:17 "And the dragon was angry with the woman and went away to make war on the rest of her seed, who keep the orders of God, and the witness of Jesus".

When my mother started the family studying the bible we were told to expect tribulations in the end times such as what occurred during the Holocaust. I felt it was necessary to study, in depth, all that occurred so that I could stand resolute before my tormentors and give them nothing that would help them regardless of their threats or promises. It taught me about honor and decency, trust and humanity, courage and determination, as well as their antitheses. Once upon a time I couldn't imagine how a human being could actually do such horrendous acts toward other human beings. Today I know it isn't possible, because they were actually Satan's minions fulfilling yet another prophecy. The timing fits in perfectly with the evidence of a war in our solar system and the destruction of Mars.

Gale

02-20-2009, 08:01 PM

yeah go Bobbi!!!!:wow: :thumbup:

unipax

02-20-2009, 11:57 PM

Yes I agree Bobbi and Gale, thank you.
Not questioning that.

However it does not exclude the possibility of misrepresentation.

Here is an example of something that raises questions.
I read that we were told that 870,000 people were killed and buried at Treblinka.
Now we are told that the entire burial site has been scanned, 18 feet deep, with Ground Penetrating Radar :

According to the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust (1997), for example, "a total of 870,000 people" were killed and buried at Treblinka between July 1942 and April 1943. Then, between April and July 1943, the hundreds of thousands of corpses were allegedly dug up and burned in batches of 2,000 or 2,500 on large grids made of railway ties.

Krege's team used an $80,000 Ground Penetration Radar (GPR) device, which sends out vertical radar signals that are visible on a computer monitor. GPR detects any large-scale disturbances in the soil structure to a normal effective depth of four or five meters, and sometimes up to ten meters. (GPR devices are routinely used around the world by geologists, archeologists, and police.) In its Treblinka investigation, Krege's team also carried out visual soil inspections, and used an auger to take numerous soil core samples.

The team carefully examined the entire Treblinka II site, especially the alleged "mass graves" portion, and carried out control examinations of the surrounding area. They found no soil disturbance consistent with the burial of hundreds of thousands of bodies, or even evidence that the ground had ever been disturbed. In addition, Krege and his team found no evidence of individual graves, bone remains, human ashes, or wood ashes.

"From these scans we could clearly identify the largely undisturbed horizontal stratigraphic layering, better known as horizons, of the soil under the camp site," says the 30-year old Krege, who lives in Canberra. "We know from scans of grave sites, and other sites with known soil disturbances, such as quarries, when this natural layering is massively disrupted or missing altogether." Because normal geological processes are very slow acting, disruption of the soil structure would have been detectable even after 60 years, Krege noted.

While his initial investigation suggests that there were never any mass graves at the Treblinka camp site, Krege believes that further work is still called for.

"Historians say that the bodies were exhumed and cremated toward the end of the Treblinka camp's use in 1943, but we found no indication that any mass graves ever existed," he says. "Personally, I don't think there was an extermination camp there at all."

Krege is preparing a detailed report on his Treblinka investigation. He says that he would welcome the formation, possibly under United Nations auspices, of an international team of neutral, qualified specialists, to carry out similar investigations at the sites of all the wartime German camps.

IF it is true that there are no burials at Treblinka, the only thing that would prove is that the Treblinka story we were told is not true.

It would not disprove anything Bobbi said. It would not disprove the "slaughter of millions of people from many different races, religions, lifestyles, eye color, you name it - not just the Jews."

If Treblinka's 870,000 is part of the 6 million total they told us about, and if the Treblinka story is wrong, should the 6 million total be corrected to 5,130,000 ?
If the Treblinka story is wrong, could that cast doubt on the other burial site stories? I think that maybe it could.
Why / who would lie about Treblinka?
Who would benefit from inflated victim totals?

The radar guy, who is apparently questioning the official holocaust story, said that "he would welcome the formation, possibly under United Nations auspices, of an international team of neutral, qualified specialists, to carry out similar investigations at the sites of all the wartime German camps."

source:
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n3p20_radar.html

this site shows a shot of the radar imagery, (and a little sarcasm, which I think is counter-productive)
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/Treblinka/groundscan.html

here is the radar imagery shot, if you wanna skip the sarcasm:

unipax

02-21-2009, 01:09 AM

Its almost like I feel I need to defend myself around this (holocaust) area of truth seeking. That is because it is such a hot topic.
No other issue I know of elicits as much emotional response, and that makes perfect sense, such a huge horror story as it is. That reminds me... I think it was Goebbels that said something like "The bigger the lie, the more easily it succeeds". That makes sense, especially where the info / event creates a powerful emotional impact. Consider the shock of 911 and the skillful framing of the evil Osama & his crew, delivered on the same day while we were traumatized. A pretty skillful psy-op, it was.

Exploitation of the Holocaust could be similar. Or, maybe exploitation/exaggeration was not planned, but realized and spinned (spun?) after the fact.

Anyway...
To me, its all about looking for the truth. I never heard of Holocaust Denial until last year or so. When I first heard of it I thought it was anti-semitic, crazy.
I also thought the claims of controlled demolition on 911 were crazy, at first.

My introduction to questioning Holocaust came via Zionism, which came via 911. In other words, researching the claims of Zionist / Mossad involvement in 911 led me to sites claiming that Zionism exploited the Holocaust.
So in my case, looking at the holocaust is an offshoot of questioning zionism.

To me it looks like the people getting arrested / jailed and labeled as "Holocaust Deniers" are really just truth seekers, kinda like the 911 truthers.

Again, I agree with what Bobbi said about all the various people that were killed in the Holocaust, and about Vatican, Ford, Bush, Bayer. It is just the number I am questioning, and who/why (if) exaggerated the numbers.

What you guys think?

Norval

02-21-2009, 01:24 AM

I think this bears repeating here,, , ,

Any regime or group can get infiltrated and turned to wrong doing by the PTB over time and as their numbers grow. Trying to figure out the middle east conflicts at this point in time I think would be futile at best. I'll wait till I can get my "library card" of the Kingdom and then learn what really took place and why. I should be able to get it in full 3D video holographic projection by then.

One of the movies I have on my shelf is called "Sobibor" about a death camp for Jews. Quite the remarkable movie / documentary I think.

Norval

02-21-2009, 01:30 AM

, , , , just some food for thought, , , ,

What was the reason for killing so many? Possibly looking for just one individual.

unipax

02-21-2009, 02:05 AM

What was the reason for killing so many? Possibly looking for just one individual.

hhmm
wow, never heard or thought of that.
plausible to me

unipax

02-21-2009, 02:27 AM

Phil Donahue show had two Holocaust Deniers on, and an Auschwitz survivor.
Doesnt solve anything but I found it interesting.
4 or five parts:

Gale

02-21-2009, 06:47 AM

Why is there a rash of holocaust threads in forums on the internet lately?

Norval

02-21-2009, 07:44 AM

hhmm
wow, never heard or thought of that.
plausible to me

After I discovered a top secret gov think tank researching the possibility of another "prophet" like Elijah, and John the baptizer coming before the return of Jesus, after he was crowned King, I started to question the WHY of Hitler killing all those people.

Every few years it seems "The Holocaust Didn't Happen" idea makes a go around on the web and MSM don't it, , , chuckles. I can wait patiently and find out the truth soon enough. :)

Bobbi

02-21-2009, 11:07 AM

Ultimately, the "accurate" number of dead simply doesn't matter. The fact that it was done at all is the point. Holocaust denial has actively been in existence since the day the camps were overtaken by opposing troops, and not just in Germany. They were scattered all over Europe - even in Russia.

Bottom line - each person will choose to believe what they want to believe - isn't that true about everything anyway? Everything about anything that is questioned has an emotional underlying factor - usually personal. Again, it is important to remember that distraction and disinformation is structured for a reason. It's the "reason" that needs to be investigated, not the event itself.

unipax

02-21-2009, 02:22 PM

Good points Bobbi.

....Again, it is important to remember that distraction and disinformation is structured for a reason. It's the "reason" that needs to be investigated, not the event itself.

Yes, ....and which is the disinfo ? What if we were lied to?

In the Phil Donahue clip, Bradley Smith referred to the greater holocaust, ie that 40 million were killed during WW2, saying that Poles, Lithuanians etc etc. were killed because they were Poles, and because they were Lithuanians.... same as Jews, Gays, Gypsies/Roma, etc.
Same like killing Hutu, Apache, Chinese, Japanese, Black, Irish, Palestinians, Jews, etc, just because they are different and vilified by the 'other' .

Smith was questioning why such emphasis on the Jews among the 40 million.
That is a good question.
I wonder if 40 million is accurate, btw ?

............................

Could it be that the deniers either suspect or are convinced that the Official Holocaust story was exaggerated because it somehow had something to do with the establishment of Israel ? (Would that be a good thing or a bad thing?)

I really dont know enough, but that fits with the claims that Zionism knows how to benefit from the suffering of Jews, IF it is true about holocaust exaggeration, that is.

I'm wondering what other possible motives there would be for inflating the number .....Monetary gains? I dunno, but thats always a possibility.

Here is me thinking:
Could the official Holocaust story (including actual mass murder of Jews & others) have been part of a "Problem-Reaction-Solution" operation, similar in structure to the official 911 story / operation, ie the holocaust helping to establish Israel ?
That question elicits another question: "Was Hitler used and or controlled by someone ?"

Now I'm wondering.. "Suppose the number was inflated, is that necessarily a bad thing ?" I dont know enough about the universe yet to answer these questions, but the questions do arise.

Ultimately, the "accurate" number of dead simply doesn't matter. The fact that it was done at all is the point.

Yep.

Bobbi

02-21-2009, 06:31 PM

Theories abound - always will - doesn't much matter about what. But what I've found most interesting in my more recent studies of the bible regarding the foretelling of the end days, together with Norval's and Gale's research regarding the war in the heavens, is that everything I had questioned before (whether I knew I was questioning it or not) now makes intelligent sense considering our technological understanding of potentials, possibilities and probabilities.

Greed is, unfortunately, the motivator in any conspiracy. Therefore, who has the most to gain in these trifling antics participated in by the many governments and religions throughout earths' history? Humans or BETS? Of course Hitler was used and controlled, either physically and/or mentally.

unipax

02-23-2009, 12:34 AM

Why is there a rash of holocaust threads in forums on the internet lately?

Maybe its just part of the wider movement of awakening and questioning authority, perhaps stemming from questioning 9/11 ?

Maybe the story about the Ground Penetrating Radar at Treblinka is getting around ?
870,000 people not buried there is nothing to sneeze at.
(That one sure caught my attention.)

Maybe the passing of laws making 'holocaust denial' illegal and jailing people for speaking or writing books has drawn some attention to the issue?

Or is it maybe because anti-semitism is in the rise ?
At least we are told it is on the rise... but is it really?

What do you think is causing the rash of holocaust threads in forums ?

I mentioned that my path to this issue was 9/11 >> Zionism >> holocaust.
I'll add that once I was awakened by the deception of 9/11, something like holocaust exaggeration is no longer so far fetched.

Causing any story to become an official part of world history requires control of relatively few key people, and with sufficient control of media, you can put your story out, and suppress / marginalize the opposing views.
Just like 9/11.

I think the guy Smith made a good point by asking why the Jewish portion of 40 thousand holocaust victims is the lead story.
Then, of the 6 million, Treblinka's missing 870,000 only adds questions to that question.

.....................

Just suppose for a moment, that hypothetically;

> the number of Jewish holocaust victims was no greater than that of other groups of similar size

> or maybe there were even more Poles, or Lithuanians exterminated than Jewish victims

> or maybe there were 3 or 4 million of each of those 3 groups, all equal

> But still we are told 6 million Jews, and the others are hardly mentioned.

What would you think ? What questions would you ask ?

As I mentioned, I would ask questions like: Why the big lie? Who benefits, and how? What the hell is going on ?

Those questions of mine describe the reason this topic interests me, in addition to the initial curiosity of automatically linking holocaust denial with anti-semitism.

What you think Gale?

Norval

02-23-2009, 08:14 AM

Anti-Semitism
Political, social, and economic agitation and activities directed against Jews. The term is now used to denote speech and behavior that is derogatory to people of Jewish origin, whether or not they are religious. The word Semitic originally was applied to all descendants of Shem, the eldest son of the biblical patriarch Noah. In later usage, it refers to a group of peoples of southwestern Asia, including both Jews and Arabs.
Encarta Encyclopedia

Antisemitism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Antisemitism (correctly spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism; but also sometimes known as Judeophobia) is prejudice against or hostility toward Jews. This prejudice or hostility is usually characterized by a combination of religious, racial, cultural and ethnic biases. While the term's etymology might suggest that antisemitism is directed against all Semitic peoples, since its creation it has been used exclusively to refer to hostility toward Jews.

food for thought, , , but then there are so many other reasons to divide mankind up into hate mongering groups, , sighs, , ,

unipax

02-23-2009, 01:25 PM

correction:

in the eighth paragraph of my previous post:

"I think the guy Smith made a good point by asking why the Jewish portion of 40 thousand ( correction 40 million ) holocaust victims is the lead story.
Then, of the 6 million, Treblinka's missing 870,000 only adds questions to that question."

PS:
I dont know if Smith's 40 million is correct, but still I get his point.

unipax

02-23-2009, 02:04 PM

.

Huh?
Subtract another 2.5 million from the 6 million .... ?

Above left: This was the plaque on display at the Auschwitz camp until 1989: note the "4 million" victims.

Above right: This is the plaque currently on display at Auschwitz (2002) - note the suddenly reduced number of victims to 1.5 million - a casual reduction in the number of deaths by 2.5 million which never appeared in the American "free press"

................................................

Why is there a rash of holocaust threads in forums on the internet lately?

You're not the only one asking that.
If I understand correctly, one poster is suggesting that the people behind 'holocaust denial" are the original perps, ie the same crowd behind Rex 84, and the new camps in USA today.

... so, maybe the "truth" coming out would actually be a new lie ?

Check this new thread at prison planet forum: "Whats the big deal about the holocaust?"

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=88366.msg511397;topicseen#msg51139 7

Heretic

02-23-2009, 03:34 PM

unipax

02-23-2009, 05:03 PM

I have been down the road of researching and discovering the discrepancies concerning the holocaust. It sure is an eye opener isn't it?

There is a great 4 hour video on this, which you are probably pulling your info from as most do. I recommend corroborating that info with other stuff too by looking into each camp and its purpose.

I also think it is wise to separate the millions of fine Jewish people on this planet and those who seek control. This whole "Jewish Conspiracy" is hateful. There are plenty of races in the family of the controllers.

Is there a holocaust conspiracy here? Sure there is.

One could say that Israel was the prize and had been a planned event from WWI's league of nations. And I am sure the reasons goes waaay back in history.

What really happened and why...well I have to agree with Norval here. We will never know, but they sure are trying to hide something aren't they.

Israel will be the center of the hurricane come soon...perhaps that alone is the reason. Maybe to allow things to play out along the lines of prophecy?

I do hate it when the "anti-semite" card is played though....and some play that card way too often.

my two cents

Great points Heretic, thanks.
Yes it sure is an eye opener !
Maybe for me it is somehow more eye-opening than 9/11

No I have not seen the four hour video. But it was mentioned at the prisonplanetforum thread I linked to.

I also think it is wise to separate the millions of fine Jewish people on this planet and those who seek control. This whole "Jewish Conspiracy" is hateful. There are plenty of races in the family of the controllers.

Yes.

My guess is that some researchers lose that balanced perspective when (according to their conclusions) they believe that some criminal Jews are involved in huge crimes. Maybe they get so immersed and overwhelmed that they see only the bad ones and lose perspective.

Regarding "we may never know the truth" ....
I know relatively little, but I think the claim that the creation of Israel was supported by exaggerating the number of victims, is a safe bet.

I'm thinking that those behind this are part of the same crowd (maybe a faction thereof) who are pulling the strings today, .... for example, 9/11

I think sometimes that these bad guys might be so into their craft that they might run a (problem) psy-op just to measure how much the rest of us (reaction) will swallow, even if they dont have an immediate (solution) program planned ie reason for the psyop.
They can always use that info for planning the next mindfock operation.

zorgon

02-23-2009, 08:34 PM

I am going to toss some gasoline on the fire so stand WELL back

At the Nuremburg trials the judge said "6,000 or 6 million what's the difference? the deed was done" (something like that)

It was from there we got the 6 million figure...

The NAZI's were meticulous record keepers... is there a list of 6 million people? (Jews and others?)

A study was done (a gruesome one) that showed it was physically impossible to burn that many people in the ovens... (I will seek out that report when I have time unless someone finds it first)

But here is something I heard from one of John's dinner guests... who dropped the comment like a bomb...

He was involved with the original CIA project Stargate RV program and was a key member in founding PsiTech (Stargate ran from 1968 to 1995 when Congress forced them to 'go public'... papers disappeared and a few months later PsiTech was created... a private company under contract)

What he said was that the NAZI's WON... that they are in fact the powers behind the government... More shocking was the fact that Hitler did not kill all Jews... apparently one faction of Jews helped him to wipe out the other...

Operation Paperclip not only brought us the German rocket scientists but over 1000 key scientists and other professionals. These NAZI scientist have created much of the industrial war machine that we see today and even the space program as it is

Prescott Bush and the Rockefellers funded the NAZi into power with money from Standard Oil and the Union Bank... all that is now in the history books and easy to trace as Prescott was charged with dealing with the enemy..

Just yesterday Bush and the Rockefellers still held the throne in the US and Standard Oil now replaced by Exxon is still mixing it up in warfare. Exxon recorded and announced on CNN record EVER quarter profits the first year of the Iraqi "war" errr freedom operation... while we were shelling out at the pumps 'because of shortages due to the war.

There were never any shortages, OPEC LOWERED barrel price and we NEVER bought a drop from Iraq to begin with

Exxon with Royal Dutch Shell are involved in building a pipeline from the billion ton oil and gas reserves in Tibet to industries in China

When I first heard this I was shocked... but when I look at all the little hints along the way I can believe it.

The Roman Catholic Church also made a pact with Hitler at the time... and the Jesuits are in control of the National Science Foundation (NSF)... which has its home base at Wheeling Jesuit University...

So the Jesuits, the Zionists and the NAZI are the REAL PTB

Okay so did you get singed by the flames?

:marshmellow:

Zenbuoy

02-23-2009, 09:39 PM

:marshmellow:

...and while we're on the subject...

all from the not bashful DAVID DEES (http://www.rense.com/1.mpicons/dees1.htm)

unipax

02-23-2009, 11:17 PM

I am going to toss some gasoline on the fire so stand WELL back

Okay so did you get singed by the flames?

:marshmellow:

What flames? Nothing shocks me anymore.

On the same page here, generally anyways.

Thanks for packaging it all in one.

unipax

02-24-2009, 12:06 AM

If this Red Cross story is true, it is good news.
(Actually whatever the truth may be, any deaths less than the six million is good news.)

..................................................

http://iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/article/130513

Sealed and guarded since the end of WWII at Arolsen, Germany, the Official IRC records reveal that the actual Concentration Camp total death toll was 271,301

Bobbi

02-24-2009, 12:41 AM

Didn't singe me either. Basically you provided a little more detail to my posting #4 above. Conspiracy within conspiracy. Everyone had someone in their back pocket, and their back pocket, ad nauseam.

Heretic

02-24-2009, 04:13 AM

nice summary Zorgon

the important thing to note here is that the Nazi movement didn't die...but merely changed address to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. While all the tech and juicy realities born from Hitler and the Nazis (Vril, Thule, and Black Sun) moved to New Berlin in Antarctica (now this would really make sense if Antarctica truly was Atlantis in the past eh?)

however I do believe that the Nazis are not THE faction running things, perhaps they are just the latest manifestation, but I believe that Templar influences created many monsters (Bavarian illuminati existed in tangent the Nazi movment) that still survive and play a part in running things today.

The templars may have only discovered what the shadow world of THIER day was up to and simply capitalized on it to create a counter force that eventually got infiltrated and created an unexpected offshoot of what already was, eventually creating another faction of control in later days (my own suspicions)

I think ALL secret societies are merely carrying out orders from a central core of controllers that control the shadow powers of the world...and that would be the BETS (although I am sure many BETS operate inside of those same societies too)

I tend to agree with Hoagland's assertion that they are one of three factions: The Masons, the Nazi's, and the Magicians or Lucifarians

but in reality I am sure it is much more convoluted than that, with many other hidden factions and we only know the tip of the iceberg

I also think that every major event in the worlds past that involves the world powers, like ALL previous wars and similar events are just presentations with simple mundane explanations that we are fed in the indoctrination er I mean class rooms, when in reality they are cover explanations for things we are still unaware of today and derive conspiracy theories from.

Therefore I think the holocaust was a cover story for something far different than what we understand today, and perhaps it is lost to us and will remain so until we finally get that encyclopedia galactica Norval mentions, but until then we are left with the discrepancies of the holocaust cover story yet (not to steer people away from investigation) we will probably only discover that we are being lied to without finding any truth as to what really happened or why

Gale

02-24-2009, 06:44 AM

Therefore I think the holocaust was a cover story for something far different than what we understand today, and perhaps it is lost to us and will remain so until we finally get that encyclopedia galactica Norval mentions, but until then we are left with the discrepancies of the holocaust cover story yet (not to steer people away from investigation) we will probably only discover that we are being lied to without finding any truth as to what really happened or why

I have suspected the very same for some time now. What I find very plausible is Hitler was attempting to eliminate the bloodline that would give birth to the end days Prophet or even killing the Prophet. He had studied Christianity so he would have been well aware of the prophecies. Also, he had a warped fascination for breeding the perfect race, blonde blue eyed. This also fits in with the Nordic looking tall whites.

Zenbuoy

02-24-2009, 12:59 PM

Also, he had a warped fascination for breeding the perfect race, blonde blue eyed. This also fits in with the Nordic looking tall whites.

Any more speculation on that folks?
I have always been fascinated with that one.
371 sent me this a while ago on another virtual, um, place.

Disc Aircraft of the Third Reich (1922-1945 and Beyond) (http://discaircraft.greyfalcon.us/index.html)
,
,
,
,
,

unipax

02-24-2009, 01:17 PM

Wow

I had no idea where this thread would lead us.

Thanx to all for great stimulating input.

I had not heard or thought of some of your contributions, especially the one about them hunting a bloodline !

Gale

02-24-2009, 05:56 PM

Any more speculation on that folks?
I have always been fascinated with that one.

Well actually, now that you mention it....
I was told that Hitler's breeders for blonde hair blue eyed perfect race, that the female breeders had their legs cut off so to facilitate birthing.
Shades of the Voynich Manuscript.

Did I mention, I never did verify the breeder legless info.

unipax

02-24-2009, 10:36 PM

As a guide when contemplating anything Hitler did or planned to do, maybe it is practical to consider that he may have been doing the bidding of unseen parties.

His actions could be clues about who controlled him. Conversely, knowing who controlled him would shed light on some or all of his actions.

Not saying he never acted alone though.

Bobbi

02-24-2009, 10:47 PM

Hitler was already suffering from some form of mental illness(es) before his stint in the army during World War I. During this time, he was caught in a mustard gas attack and survived, thus exacerbating his mental instability with delusions of granduer awaiting him as a messenger of God. How easy do you think it is to manipulate a crazy man to do your bidding, as long as you tell him it was his idea to begin with?

By the way, most of you do know that Hitler was of Jewish descent, didn't you?

Gale

02-24-2009, 10:50 PM

Jewish descent

certainly

It was also said he had some form of STD.

Gale

02-25-2009, 06:57 AM

Why is there a rash of holocaust threads in forums on the internet lately?

Bishop's reinstatement prompts Holocaust row (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7857293.stm)

zorgon

02-25-2009, 09:44 PM

certainly

It was also said he had some form of STD.

Jewish on his mother's side... and Syphilis

Oh and he was an AUSTRIAN not German :dots:

zorgon

02-25-2009, 09:50 PM

Any more speculation on that folks?

George Adamski's Visitor from Venus

Howard Menger's visitor from Venus

Traute A., the other Vril medium

Marija Oršić (pronounced Orshich)

zorgon

02-25-2009, 09:55 PM

We sent out two Pioneer Spacecraft... out into the interstellar void in opposite directions...

Each one carried a plaque created by Carl Sagan (the mad man who wanted o "Nuke the Moon")

This plaque was meant to represent humanity on Earth

Notice anything?

unipax

02-25-2009, 11:58 PM

unipax

02-26-2009, 12:24 AM

Marija Oršić (pronounced Orshich)

Ah yes, Marija !

What a woman ! Such fond memories .... her being all perfect and ageless

She and I had quite the affair back in the day ! We were engaged ... but alas .... I had to end it ... I discovered that she was ..... well, I really shouldnt disclose that here in public.

But we have remained very close. We get together quite often for 'old times sake' !

!

!

!

!

! ....... :icon_bs:

Bobbi

02-26-2009, 12:35 AM

Gale

02-26-2009, 04:56 AM

I thought the male and female in relation to the "sailboat" was to show average size and height but I never looked into the size of the Pioneer Spacecraft until right now.

Measured from its farthest ends, from the horn of the medium-gain antenna to the tip of the omnidirectional antenna, the Pioneer spacecraft is 2.9 meters (9 1/2 feet) long. Its widest cross-wise dimension, exclusive of the booms, is the 2.7-meter (9-foot) diameter high gain antenna. Pioneer weighs 270 kilograms (570 pounds). The spacecraft is spin-stabilized, spinning about the axis of the high gain dish antenna at approximately 5 rpm. Six Hydrazine thrusters provide velocity, attitude and spin-rate control.
The Pioneer Missions (http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/missions/archive/pioneer.html)

But let me guess, both male and female are not anorexic model types, both have fairly straight hair not tightly curled. On this picture not the "gold anodized plaque" both are white skinned with white hair depicting Hitler's Aryan race.
The male figure, like all those ancient male statues, they are not very well endowed. I find it an insult, if that is suppose to be the average human male, then I a very thankful I have never met one whose thumb is larger than his penis.
They don't have the small pointed pixie nose.

Norval

02-26-2009, 07:20 AM

, , , uhmmm I'll be over there having coffee, , > > > > :)

Heretic

02-26-2009, 08:40 AM

pardon me for breaking off from the holocaust even if the Vril, Thule, and Black Sun were huge contributors towards the establishment of the Aryan race

but those Vril ships had a major effect on the early UFO research

this is the Haunebu 2:

now notice the resemblance between the Haunebu 2 and Adamski's photograph (below), which he said to be of a UFO, taken on December 13, 1952.

this seems to be a very popular craft and has dominated UFO research and books since the 50s. These people have been using the Haunebu 2 design (in ignorance?)

UFO (some) book covers using the Haunebu 2 design:

Space, Gravity & the Flying Saucer - Leonard Cramp - 1954 (http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc329/Heretic1963/EarlyBookArt1.jpg)
Who Pilots The Flying Saucers - Gordon Cove - The 50s (http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc329/Heretic1963/EarlyBookArt2.jpg)
Space Science Fiction "Flying Saucers Do Exist" - 1957 (http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc329/Heretic1963/EarlyBookArt3.jpg)
From Outer Space to You - Howard Menger - 1959 (http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc329/Heretic1963/EarlyBookArt4.jpg)
The Truth About Flyign Saucers - Aime Michel - 1957 (http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc329/Heretic1963/EarlyBookArt5.jpg)
UFO Top Secret - Mort Young Mysterious Visitors - Brinsley Trench - 1967 (http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc329/Heretic1963/EarlyBookArt6.jpg)
The House of Lords UFO Debate - Transcript - 1979 (http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc329/Heretic1963/EarlyBookArt9.jpg)
UFOs and the Complete Evidence from Space - Daniel Ross - 1987 (http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc329/Heretic1963/EarlyBookArt10.jpg)
Mercury: UFO Messenger of the Gods - W.D. Clendenon - 1991 (http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc329/Heretic1963/EarlyBookArt11.jpg)
The UFO Report - Timothy Good - 1990 (http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc329/Heretic1963/EarlyBookArt12.jpg)
The Gosford Files - UFOs over the Central Coast - McGhee & Dickeson - 1996 (http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc329/Heretic1963/EarlyBookArt13.jpg)

Coincidence?

PS sorry too many pics for one page so I had to link em...

unipax

02-26-2009, 12:46 PM

unipax

02-26-2009, 01:03 PM

We sent out two Pioneer Spacecraft... out into the interstellar void in opposite directions...

This plaque was meant to represent humanity on Earth

Notice anything?

What are those little codes positioned above or below each planet ?

unipax

02-27-2009, 12:16 AM

hey Z,

what was the answer to the quiz about the imagery on the plaque ?

zorgon

02-27-2009, 12:24 AM

Okay Zorgon - just a guess. The arrow pointing to a little "sailboat" figure, presumably from the third planet. This little figure is then enlarged behind the pictures of the man and woman - perhaps indicating what is inside the "sailboat" - representing earth???

No the point is that they picked a perfect specimen Aryan couple with Blonde hair to represent all humanity

The 'sailboat' is the Pioneer Probe

The two circles upper left is a symbol representing the hyperfine transition of hydrogen.

zorgon

02-27-2009, 12:28 AM

What are those little codes positioned above or below each planet ?

The binary numbers next to the planets show the relative distance to the sun. The unit is 1/10 of Mercury's orbit.

unipax

02-27-2009, 10:29 AM

thanks
.................................................. ..................

Bobbi

02-27-2009, 10:47 AM

Thank you for the info - boy, was I off base! Although it was obvious the "sailboat" was the pioneer craft, I wanted to make certain my post indicated exactly what I was referring to in my answer.

In reviewing the picture you provided, the sketches of the humanoids could actually be construed as a conglomerate of human features. Since there is no shading in the sketch, it would be impossible for any stranger to determine just exactly what color the hair is, although I'll grant you, it isn't kinky (and as a side note, some of us blonde-haired, blue eyed humans have very kinky hair) - the eyes look oriental, the nose appears to have Negroid features.

Heretic

02-27-2009, 12:32 PM

Another punishment for Horst Mahler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horst_Mahler) for Questioning The Holocaust

Mahler Gets 6 Years Over
Holocaust Statement
Zionism Is Destroying Civilization

2-26-9 MUNICH - German dissident Horst Mahler has been sentenced to six years in prison for "Volksverhetzung" (racial incitement). The symbolically significant number of years imposed for "anti- Semitic hate speech" stemmed from his refusal to recognize the Jewish Holocaust®, which he described as "the biggest lie in world history."

FACING LIFELONG IMPRISONMENT-Dissident Horst Mahler is seen here with his wife Sylvia Stolz, currently in prison for defending other dissidents.

The 73-year-old defendant was accused, among other things, of repeated dissemination of his views on the Internet as well as distribution of a revisionist videotape and a CD and book by Holo-skeptic Germar Rudolf, now serving time for "Holocaust® denial" in a German prison.

Immediately following sentencing, the 73-year-old dissident was arrested and led away before astonished onlookers in the courtroom, including many of his supporters. The former attorney for the rightwing National Democratic Party (NPD) successfully represented that organization when the German regime tried to have it banned in the 1990s. He earlier received prison sentences for thought-crimes on several occasions.

'I have resolved to call a lie a lie'

In his concluding remarks before the court, Mahler noted that with another case pending against him he faces a total of over 12 years in prison - the equivalent of a life sentence, given his advanced age. He would, however, stand by his views.

In setting a personal example, Mahler declared that it was incumbent upon every German to "deal a deathblow to the Holocaust® religion as martyrs for the truth."

The dissident defendant concluded by saying: "I have resolved to expose this Talmudic perfidy, that over and over again I will call a lie a lie and oppose it with the truth. I have sworn to my people never to give up in this fight against the Holocaust® religion."

This News Report was Spun for you by Rense.com (http://www.rense.com/general85/mahl.htm)

Heretic

02-27-2009, 12:40 PM

And as for Bishop Richard Williamson who is mainly responsible for all the recent internet buzz on holocaust denial...

he got put back in his place...

Report: Bishop who had denied Holocaust apologizes
By ALESSANDRA RIZZO, Associated Press Writer Alessandra Rizzo, Associated Press Writer – Thu Feb 26, 5:44 pm ET

(http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Heathrow-airport-Bishop-Richard-Williamson-Argentina/photo//090225/481/9981bdf4fb3748ec805026bae93fbdae//s:/ap/20090226/ap_on_re_eu/eu_italy_holocaust_denial)
AP – Bishop Richard Williamson, second from left in foreground, is escorted out of Heathrow airport by police …

ROME – A British bishop whose denial of the Holocaust embroiled Pope Benedict XVI in controversy has apologized for his remarks, a Catholic news agency said Thursday. Bishop Richard Williamson, with the conservative Society of St. Pius X, had faced worldwide criticism over a television interview in which he said no Jews were gassed during the Holocaust.

While Williamson apologized in a statement Thursday to all those who took offense and for the distress he caused, the bishop did not specifically say that his comments were erroneous, or that he no longer believed them.

"If I had known beforehand the full harm and hurt to which they would give rise, especially to the church, but also to survivors and relatives of victims of injustice under the Third Reich, I would not have made them," Williamson was quoted as saying in the statement carried by the Zenit Catholic news agency.

READ FULL STORY (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090226/ap_on_re_eu/eu_italy_holocaust_denial)