Zorgon's Path of Oh Shits

[zorgon]

I would be interested to know just how long you have been on "this research" you mention? What got you started down this rabbit hole and when?

Hmmmm many moons ago...

Well let me start with that I was born Lutheran... but no one forced me to follow any path. I started pretty early questioning religion and if you recall I once asked you about the animals on the Ark...

Well that was one of three questions that bothered me because we would hear one thing on TV and in Sunday School... but the book said otherwise. When I dared to ask... it was always "your not meant to question the word" or something similar... and believe me I asked many times... because the more I got those answers the more I needed to know... Thing is NO ONE at that time ever just pulled out the book... and read the passage

So that was the beginning... 14 'clean' beasts and 4 'unclean' beast of every species is more than enough to repopulate the Earth... where 2 isn't...

So while it may seem trivial at the time it was important... How can one listen to someone who can't give you a straight answer? There were other questions but you get the idea.


That was the path away from Christianity...then along came von Danekin and T Lobsang Rampa... and a little later the Rosicrucians...

From there it gets complicated



[QUOTE]
While I am not convinced mankind is off world and survivable, it may be possible. What convinces you? Yes, what do you know?

Project Horizon... completed by 1959 by the US-SMDC attachment out of Huntsville Alabama... the same group that have been running the Kwajalien Atoll Launch facility since 1954...

This project was run by Major General Trudeau and spear headed by Wernher von Braun... Also remember that "Operation Paperclip" that brought over 1000 German NAZI scientists to America was also the US-SMDC attachment out of Huntsville Alabama, particularly the Redstone Arsenal Division. (Dr. Werhner von Braun, then Chief, Guided Missile Development Operation Division at Army Ballistic Missile Agency (ABMA) in Redstone Arsenal, Alabama(So from NAZI enemy that was intent on taking us out with rockets in a few short years he becomes head of our NEW ballistic missile defense agency (that he and his team built all the ICBM's for)))

Phillip Corso in his book "The Day After Roswell" has a summary copy of Volume One on Project Horizon... (A quick side note is that I can trace von Braun to both Roswell and Antarctica)

When I first hunted down these documents I started with a NASA historian. This person wrote me back and said they have a poor copy of Vol 1 and Vol 4 on hand but then referred me to a RUSSIAN web archive and told me they had a better copy...

WOW NASA refers me to RUSSIA? Nice!

Anyway a few days later I get four other emails in regards to my request... each one from a different government agency, all being very helpful to get me to the source of these documents...

It seems the NASA historian passed on my request 'up the line'

End result is the LAST letter in the chain was from US-SMDC attachment out of Huntsville Alabama... So I now have Vol 1 and 4 (Vol 1 is the overview, Vol 4 is the Army logistics report that says "can do" (deadline was have a base on Farside by 1962)

Vol 3 is a 480 page technical report and Vol 4 is the political ramifications of this project if the people found out. I have to physically go to Huntsville to copy this myself (or hire an agent)

This project has been cited in several Lunar mining documents available as abstracts from LPI and the Colorado School of Mines...

Also there was the Walt Disney/Wernher von Braun collaboration at the same time to make a MOVIE about building a base on the farside of the moon... as a cover story in case it was ever leaked...

This photo is from NACA (before it was NASA) Notice the TRIANGULAR craft Braun is holding... then remember that this was 1954!!!


Photo Credit 1954 NACA

Walt Disney and Dr. Wernher von Braun

Dr. Werhner von Braun, then Chief, Guided Missile Development Operation Division at Army Ballistic Missile Agency (ABMA) in Redstone Arsenal, Alabama, was visited by Walt Disney in 1954. In the 1950's, von Braun worked with Disney Studio as a technical director, making three films about space exploration for television. A model of the V-2 rocket is in background.

Disney, who would become an international icon, opened Disneyland the same year that von Braun worked as a technical director on three Disney TV programs about space.

The first, ``Man in Space,'' aired on ABC on March 9, 1955. The second, ``Man and the Moon,'' aired the same year, and the final film, ``Mars and Beyond,'' was televised on Dec. 4, 1957.

If you look around the web even today you will still see THIS image below shown as 'proof' of a base on the Moon...




Now look at it again... more closely... bottom right corner



Get the picture?

There is a lot more... would take days and several threads... But I know that 2 months before Apollo 11 an "Aquila cargo transport" left Kwajalien headed for the Moon... Aquila is manufactured by Starcraft Boosters and THAT company is owned by Buzz Aldrin

Here is the Kwajalien site logo...



Note the "NASA Space Operations..." and "Deep Space Surveillance" than ask your self WHAT are watching in Deep Space?

When John Lear flew those missions for the CIA, Kwajalien, Wake Island and Johnston Atoll were frequent stops... one time he landed at Johnston he was greeted by an officer who greeted him cordially... then pointed to a guard off to the right... "See that fellow over there? He has orders to shoot you if you look behind your airplane... otherwise enjoy your stay"


So how is that for "What do you know?"




Once you see the drama as a cover for tactical forum disruption it fails to work anymore. Quite true though, not many are waking up, few indeed. I figure it's about one in 10,000 that are active on the web that may have gotten this far into the research. Or less

Yeah and when the drama stops they go silent... I don't think the majority of people WANT to know. If you present something that doesn't fit into their already preconceved 'package' they will drag in the drama to focus away from the topic, or actually 'chase you off'... because who really wants to hang around a place where ones ideas are greeted with BS and profanity and personal attacks? There is little point and nothing to be gained.

[zorgon]

Now the whole scenario that came along with "Alternative 3" which has been labeled a 'hoax' by some brought us the 1962 landing of an Expedition to Mars...

So the real question is ... was Alternative 3 a complete hoax, or deliberate misdirection on several levels?

Again we turn to Herr Braun... for once again he had those plans and also made a Disney episode on "Mars and Beyond"

Von Braun Mars Expedition - 1952

Class: Manned. Type: Mars Expedition. Destination: Mars. Nation: USA. Manufacturer: Von Braun.

Wernher von Braun made the first engineering analysis of a manned mission to Mars in 1948. He published his calculations in 1952, and they subsequently reached a wide audience in Collier's magazine, a series of books, and the Walt Disney television program. What is astonishing is that Von Braun's scenario is still valid today.

In 1948, with the US Army's V-2 test project winding down, Wernher Von Braun was ensconced in isolated Fort Bliss. He had, unusually, some time on his hands. He occupied himself by writing a novel concerning an expedition to Mars, grounded on accurate engineering estimates. As an appendix to the novel he documented his calculations. The novel was reportedly awful and has never surfaced. But Von Braun used the calculations as the basis for a lecture at the First Symposium on Spaceflight held at the Hayden Planetarium in New York on Columbus Day, 1951. Von Braun's concepts, illustrated by magnificent Chesley Bonestell paintings, were made available to a large public with the publication of a series of articles in Collier's magazine beginning in February 1952. This was subsequently released as a book, 'Across the Space Frontier', in 1953. The technical appendix was published in German as Das Marsprojekt in 1953 and in English in America in 1962 as The Mars Project. Refined designs were presented in 1956 in 'The Exploration of Mars' and reached an audience of 42 million Americans in a series of programmes televised on the Walt Disney show. Von Braun's concepts were known to a wider audience than any other of the period. No other series of articles, books, and programmes did more to popularise the idea of manned space travel before Sputnik.

Das Marsprojekt was the first technically comprehensive design for a manned expedition to Mars. Von Braun envisioned not a simple preliminary voyage to Mars, but an enormous scientific expedition modelled on the Antarctic model. His Mars expedition was to consist of 70 crew members aboard ten spacecraft - each spacecraft with a mass of 3720 tonnes! To assemble this armada in earth orbit, Von Braun proposed a fully recoverable, reusable three-stage launch vehicle, which was designed to deliver 25 tonnes of cargo plus 14.5 tonnes of 'excess propellant' for the Mars fleet with each launch. Assembly of the expedition would take 950 launches of 46 these reusable space shuttles over eight months from a very busy base at Johnston Island in the Pacific Ocean. The first and second stages would splash down under parachutes 304 and 1459 km downrange, then be towed back to the launch site by a tug. The winged third stage, after dumping its cargo at the assembly point and pumping its excess propellants to the Mars ships, would glide to a landing on Johnston Island. All three stages would be refurbished at the island, stacked, and reused.

More Here

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/41pegasus/01archives/Von_Braun_1952.htm

Here is WvB with his Mars Shuttle model



And before anyone brings up the Van Allen Belt radiation... I can already document that NASA already had em shields as early as 1964


ACTIVE SHIELDING CONCEPTS FOR THE IONIZING
RADIATION IN SPACE
prepared for
NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION
R.C. GOOD, S.P. SHEN, AND N.F. DOW
Contract NASw-502 Final Report Rev. 31 Jan. 1964

Space Sciences Laboratory
Missile and Space Division
GENERAL ELECTRIC COMPANY
Philadelphia, Pa.

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19640021638_1964021638.pdf

[zorgon]

[Norval]

I am still thinking about this,, :)
Mighty big window for unmanned.
How much time delay between Mars rovers and earth? Min. max?
Just thinking.

[unipax]

verry interesting Z !

thnx !

..........................................

[unipax]

great stuff Mr Z !

thnx !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Zenbuoy]

.........................................:hail:

[sfth13]

when the last rover landed I think they said the radio signal takes about 10-15 minutes one way... but I could be wrong...

[Gale]

sfth is correct or very close.


The speed of any communication between Mars and Earth is limited to the speed of light, which results in a minimum delay (when the planets are closest to each other) of about 8 minutes for one way. This delay increases to approximately 18 minutes when the planets are in conjunction. This causes another issue as the Sun will be blocking the Line Of Sight (LOS) between the planets, communication signals will need to be re-routed via an interplanetary network,[1] increasing the time taken for signals to travel between Earth and Mars. Without special buffering the result of a mouse click appears 16 minutes (minimum), or over 36 minutes (maximum), later on the screen. Time for HTML download will add to this lag. So, at worst, a complete terrestrial web page may take over 40 minutes to display on a Mars-based computer.
Marspedia (http://www.marspedia.org/index.php?title=Internet)

[Norval]

Marspedia made a major boo boo in their calculations, , anybody caught it?

[zorgon]

How much time delay between Mars rovers and earth? Min. max?

Average distance to Mars 120,000,000
Speed of Light 186,000 m/s

645.16 seconds or 10.75 minutes approx. depending on actual distance

[Norval]

Think of the service bill for that net access. :eek:

P.S. The math is actually correct. :) :bananen_smilies015:

[Norval]

An interesting path there Zorgon,

After having looked at a few thousand photos from around our solar system, it has gotten to the point that the destruction seen, when recognized as the results of war, has caused me to accept many things. Each and every one of us has their reasons for pursuing these matters of UFOs and ETs. Once acceptance happens, there will still be the fake and bogus to distract from the real. Information Warfare tactics.

Even though others are awakening to what the bible has to say as a document about ET and mankind, most are not as deep as what we go into here. Very few have caught on to the Sol System War, or War in the Heavens, aspects yet. The very idea that bad ETs would be right here on the net is just about as bad as believing that there are any other types of agents with agendas trying to keep the truth hidden. Or am I just acting as paranoid as all the rest of you? ( :lol: just kidding)

EDITED to add this;
http://earthsbanner.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=442

The document states that mankind would force his way into the heavens. Just how far and how many, besides where, remains to be exactly known. But there are some of us alive , , , out there, , , Enoch, Elijah, Moses, Jesus and, I am sure, the list has been added to as mankind now lives 24 / 7 in space. This, indeed, may prove to be the most fascinating time to have ever been alive.

[zorgon]

Well I don't disagree with you on the fact that there was an interplanetary war some time ago... in fact I have been working on details and can even draw orbits and other details that actually make scientific sense. My issue is with the time certain events are described in your document... they don't appear in the proper sequence


Edited for typo, , :) hope yah don't mind.
Changed was to war.
Norval

[Norval]

When it comes to going outside of the usa's information services, we too have had the same problems with info that should be here and it aint, some of our information and help has come from outside sources also. While other researchers, with lots of credentials we don't have, get turned down for information requests, yet Gale and I get the info we ask for. Go figure on that one.

I can think of several reasons that the PTB would want us to think we are secretly "out there" in space. Yet there aren't enough of the right kind of "leaks" coming out that show this to me. That is why I question it. Often it is not what we see or don't see, but what we should see and don't that raises questions.

This time line effort may be a start to discuss the times of events?
http://earthsbanner.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170

[Heretic]

I was curious about the two Mars Landing videos...

I have both in my archives but never knew one way or the other concerning their authenticity

could you elaborate on the mars landing video Zorgon as the only other type of corroboration I have heard (names dates, project titles) was Bill Cooper and he changed his story later on in his radio shows