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unipax
04-28-2009, 03:23 PM
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-missing-sunspots-is-this-the-big-chill-1674630.html

The missing sunspots: Is this the big chill?

Scientists are baffled by what they’re seeing on the Sun’s surface – nothing at all. And this lack of activity could have a major impact on global warming.

David Whitehouse investigates

Monday, 27 April 2009

Could the Sun play a greater role in recent climate change than has been believed? Climatologists had dismissed the idea and some solar scientists have been reticent about it because of its connections with those who those who deny climate change. But now the speculation has grown louder because of what is happening to our Sun. No living scientist has seen it behave this way. There are no sunspots.

The disappearance of sunspots happens every few years, but this time it’s gone on far longer than anyone expected – and there is no sign of the Sun waking up. “This is the lowest we’ve ever seen. We thought we’d be out of it by now, but we’re not,” says Marc Hairston of the University of Texas. And it’s not just the sunspots that are causing concern. There is also the so-called solar wind – streams of particles the Sun pours out – that is at its weakest since records began. In addition, the Sun’s magnetic axis is tilted to an unusual degree. “This is the quietest Sun we’ve seen in almost a century,” says NASA solar scientist David Hathaway. But this is not just a scientific curiosity. It could affect everyone on Earth and force what for many is the unthinkable: a reappraisal of the science behind recent global warming.

Our Sun is the primary force of the Earth’s climate system, driving atmospheric and oceanic circulation patterns. It lies behind every aspect of the Earth’s climate and is, of course, a key component of the greenhouse effect. But there is another factor to be considered. When the Sun has gone quiet like this before, it coincided with the earth cooling slightly and there is speculation that a similar thing could happen now. If so, it could alter all our predictions of climate change, and show that our understanding of climate change might not be anywhere near as good as we thought.

Sunspots are dark, cooler patches on the Sun’s surface that come and go in a roughly 11-year cycle, first noticed in 1843. They have gone away before. They were absent in the 17th century – a period called the “Maunder Minimum” after the scientist who spotted it. Crucially, it has been observed that the periods when the Sun’s activity is high and low are related to warm and cool climatic periods. The weak Sun in the 17th century coincided with the so-called Little Ice Age. The Sun took a dip between 1790 and 1830 and the earth also cooled a little. It was weak during the cold Iron Age, and active during the warm Bronze Age. Recent research suggests that in the past 12,000 years there have been 27 grand minima and 19 grand maxima.

Throughout the 20th century the Sun was unusually active, peaking in the 1950s and the late 1980s. Dean Pensell of NASA, says that, “since the Space Age began in the 1950s, solar activity has been generally high. Five of the ten most intense solar cycles on record have occurred in the last 50 years.” The Sun became increasingly active at the same time that the Earth warmed. But according to the scientific consensus, the Sun has had only a minor recent effect on climate change.

Many scientists believe that the Sun was the major player on the Earth’s climate until the past few decades, when the greenhouse effect from increasing levels of carbon dioxide overwhelmed it.

Computer models suggest that of the 0.5C increase in global average temperatures over the past 30 years, only 10-20 per cent of the temperature variations observed were down to the Sun, although some said it was 50 per cent.

But around the turn of the century things started to change. Within a few years of the Sun’s activity starting to decline, the rise in the Earth’s temperature began to slow and has now been constant since the turn of the century. This was at the same time that the levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide carried on rising. So, is the Sun’s quietness responsible for the tail-off in global warming and if not, what is?

There are some clues as to what’s going on. Although at solar maxima there are more sunspots on the Sun’s surface, their dimming effect is more than offset by the appearance of bright patches on the Sun’s disc called faculae – Italian for “little torches”. Overall, during an 11-year solar cycle the Sun’s output changes by only 0.1 per cent, an amount considered by many to be too small a variation to change much on earth. But there is another way of looking it. While this 0.1 per cent variation is small as a percentage, in terms of absolute energy levels it is enormous, amounting to a highly significant 1.3 Watts of energy per square metre at the Earth. This means that during the solar cycle’s rising phase from solar minima to maxima, the Sun’s increasing brightness has the same climate-forcing effect as that from increasing atmospheric greenhouse gasses. There is recent research suggesting that solar variability can have a very strong regional climatic influence on Earth – in fact stronger than any man-made greenhouse effect across vast swathes of the Earth. And that could rewrite the rules.

No one knows what will happen or how it will effect our understanding of climate change on Earth. If the Earth cools under a quiet Sun, then it may be an indication that the increase in the Sun’s activity since the Little Ice Age has been the dominant factor in global temperature rises. That would also mean that we have overestimated the sensitivity of the Earth’s atmosphere to an increase of carbon dioxide from the pre-industrial three parts per 10,000 by volume to today’s four parts per 10,000. Or the sun could compete with global warming, holding it back for a while. For now, all scientists can do, along with the rest of us, is to watch and wait.

Norval
04-29-2009, 07:22 AM
, , , , , , , and your take on this Unipax?

What are your thoughts about this?

unipax
04-29-2009, 03:03 PM
I'm really not sure what to make of it Norv
what you think?

Norval
04-29-2009, 05:52 PM
About the same I suppose, , ,

Bobbi
05-01-2009, 12:23 AM
This is off-topic and for that I apologize to the OP, you Unipax. Is your keyboard missing the letters "a" and "l"? They seem, of late, to have disappeared from the end of my husband's name.

You can move this to "off topic", Janitors. Thank you.

Gale
05-01-2009, 07:08 AM
Nope, aint movin' it....goes with missing

unipax
05-01-2009, 01:55 PM
This is off-topic and for that I apologize to the OP, you Unipax. Is your keyboard missing the letters "a" and "l"? They seem, of late, to have disappeared from the end of my husband's name.


I have also noticed this Bobbi.

Further, have you noticed how an i will occasionally appear in place of the al ?
And sometimes the a and the l re-appear just like 'normal'...?

Mary, I sometimes drop the y and she never blinks, she smiles
Marvin, I'll say Hey Marv, or Marvi. Sometimes for fun its Marvo.
I try to say Marvin once or twice weekly. I tell him that it is just so he doesnt forget his real name. He has a few nicknames for me too.

It helps pass the time at work. The protocol is to try new ones on each other and watch for the response. Some fly, some dont.

It is the same with Norv or Norvi.
But since you bring it up I will check with him. Thanks Bobbi

Unipax becomes uni all the time.
I get uni here on this forum too. I kinda like it.

unipax
05-02-2009, 02:36 PM
ps

in other words, if it was not understood, my use of nicknames is an expression of friendship

Gale
05-02-2009, 07:15 PM
Or just plain rude when it is your own personal idiosyncrasy.

unipax
05-02-2009, 08:38 PM
Or just plain rude when it is your own personal idiosyncrasy.

Thank you Gale.
Some would disagree. I have been 'honored' for initiating the fun of nicknaming, in a group that works or plays together. I see others do it as well, and it has never seemed rude to me. How do you see it that way ? Maybe you have not been exposed to it before?

Was my use of a Norval nickname offensive to you?

Coming from a similar background in waterfront workplaces, I had a hunch that Norval might have heard "Hey Norv" before, and that he would have received it in a good way, as it was intended. I'm sure I could be wrong, but I'd be surprised because it was common in those workplaces.

I took a chance there. Checking for approval beforehand kinda takes some of the fun out of it. No one has asked me if 'uni' is ok. Its ok, I like it.

I asked Norval yesterday in an email how he felt about it.
In so many words I asked him in the email if it was a first for him.

I apologize if it offended Norval or Bobbi, or Gale, or Zorgon, or Zenbuoy, or Fred, and the other members.

Hey Norval,
Was Norv, offensive or rude to you ?

I dont know, but I'd like to know....how did you take it please?

Norval
05-02-2009, 09:12 PM
Instead of attempting to justify your use of (so called) nic names, when in fact it is a ploy of concealing disrespect when using any part of a person's real name. Yes, I have had a few nic names over the years and all were indicators of talent or accomplishments, I.E. "Gadget" or "McGyver". Only one person ever has ever, to my face, slighted my given name, as you are doing, in the guise of friendship.

Only one person in this forum has shortened your name, and it was not me.
Is that clear enough for you ?

Bobbi
05-02-2009, 09:17 PM
My position in this is two-fold. First off, the use of an arbitrary “nickname” is presumptive familiarity and is unwarranted when a relationship has not been established as “intimate in it’s nature”. Secondly, in my husband’s position on this forum as a veteran scholar willing to share his knowledge, he is afforded a certain level of respect. I, personally, am offended at the casual nature of your use of an untoward (awkward and uncouth) nickname in addressing my husband on the open forum. How you and he wish to correspond in profile messages is between you and him.

Furthermore, your response to me was also a display of your apparent disrespect - of my regard for my husband.

zorgon
05-03-2009, 01:52 AM
Wow so missing sunspots became a war of nicknames...

Nice...

The reason the sun is having issues is because the sun is pregnant... not sure when its due...

unipax
05-03-2009, 02:53 AM
Oh yeah, ..... I think it was Hoagland talking about solar scientists privately being really concerned about something that some of them thought the sun was doing, a few years ago it was, and not going public with it
Thats all I heard

Gale
05-03-2009, 06:47 AM
Zorgon, it is etiquette and common sense. Both of which have been thrown away on the net and will be necessary when dealing with difference races. Especially when considering our human place in the Intergalactic Government and Who is coming. I guess the buzz word is Exopolitical.
With the 'War on Information' that is being waged everywhere, "Just Due Respect" is almost non-existent.
Lack of common sense can be a gauge of comprehension indicating the "blindness" that is mentioned in the Document.


Ephesians 4:18
RSV with Apocrypha
they are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of
God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of
heart;

II Thessalonians 2:11
RSV with Apocrypha
Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe
what is false,

As for etiquette:

Columbia Encyclopedia: etiquette
etiquette, name for the codes of rules governing social or diplomatic intercourse. These codes vary from the more or less flexible laws of social usage (differing according to local customs or taboos) to the rigid conventions of court and military circles, and they extend to the legal, medical, and other professions. All cultures include forms of etiquette; often, etiquette has been used to enforce class distinctions, as well as safeguarding against conflict in social interactions.

The sunspots, well it has been well published the sun is in its 12-14 year low so missing sunspots is no mystery.

Norval
05-03-2009, 09:44 AM
War? nawww, just a learning experience.

War is never nice, , , I try to avoid them, but won't run from a necessary one.

Yes, the sun seems to be giving birth to something, , , ,
When is it due? Anytime now. :)

Hoagland? IAC agent for sure me tinks.

zorgon
05-04-2009, 01:51 AM
Actually the fact that the sun is pregnant came from Sleeper... didn't know Hoagland was aware of that.

Don't know when its due...

LOL Maybe Dec 21st 2012:wheelchair:

Bobbi
05-04-2009, 08:37 AM
Zorgon, who is this Sleeper?

On the side, what is that symbol on the corner of the shield in your avatar?

unipax
05-04-2009, 01:19 PM
Actually the fact that the sun is pregnant came from Sleeper... didn't know Hoagland was aware of that.



Well, RCH didnt say he was aware of anything other than as I paraphrased from memory:

"solar scientists privately being really concerned about something that some of them thought the sun was doing, a few years ago it was, and not going public with it"

He said it in his usual dramatic cliff hanger style, saying nada re what he himself knew

unipax
05-04-2009, 01:22 PM
thanx for those passages Gale

zorgon
05-05-2009, 01:51 AM
He said it in his usual dramatic cliff hanger style, saying nada re what he himself knew

Ah yes... great tactics to keep the paying costumer coming back for more...

Gale
05-05-2009, 07:58 AM
paying costumer?.... how/what did the paying costumer pay or is that in reference to fantasy game playing?


Space Weather,
Daily Sun: 03 May 09 (http://www.spaceweather.com/)
NEW: Spotless Days
Current Stretch: 3 days
2009 total: 105 days (85%)
Since 2004: 616 days
Typical Solar Min: 485 days

unipax
05-05-2009, 02:41 PM
Pay to play Enterprise Mission forum ?

Also Books, DVDs, seminars

Gale
05-06-2009, 09:41 PM
Unipax, that question was actually for Zorgon.

unipax
05-06-2009, 11:17 PM
Thank you Gale.

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