The Firmament: a poser.

[₣яэđĸĊ]

Ok then. One of my odder brain farts, or well ... that's what questions are for, huh?

The firmament: Commonly believed to be some metaphor for the heavens, the sky, etc. And while there are many things I can let go as metaphor, and who knows, a literal reading sure makes something else of this one.

A quick KJV search yields this:
http://fredsitelive.com/books/religion/firmament.html
15 Verses found containing: firmament

Easton's gives me:
Firmament - from the Vulgate firmamentum, which is used as the translation of the Hebrew raki'a. This word means simply "expansion." It denotes the space or expanse like an arch appearing immediately above us. They who rendered raki'a by firmamentum regarded it as a solid body. The language of Scripture is not scientific but popular, and hence we read of the sun rising and setting, and also here the use of this particular word. It is plain that it was used to denote solidity as well as expansion. It formed a division between the waters above and the waters below (Gen. 1:7). The raki'a supported the upper reservoir (Ps. 148:4). It was the support also of the heavenly bodies (Gen. 1:14), and is spoken of as having "windows" and "doors" (Gen. 7:11; Isa. 24:18; Mal. 3:10) through which the rain and snow might descend.

But this, "It formed a division between the waters above and the waters below" got me brain crankin' one day.

"They who rendered raki'a by firmamentum regarded it as a solid body."

The thing which has kept me wondering about it, silly as it may seem is this:
* Water, is a great way to block radiation.
* Something else changed once the "firmament above came down", as in, the flood. No more tales of people living even one hundred years, let along several.

No, I am not sure where else this line of thought would take me, but that's the beauty of asking questions. You find out real quick whether you're full of crap (and can now move on to things like, what's for dinner?), or you're on to something, and someone gets an idea.

Fred

[Norval]

These strange rainbow effects in our sky's now are very new to the world, only started to be seen about ten years ago for the first time. They are now becoming much more prolific. Bottom line, obviously much more water vapor in our atmosphere now. Here is a link for some more info.

http://earthsbanner.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11

Yes, water is a great block to harmful radiation. There are several of us that would have to agree that this is accurate and truthful in that our life span has been drastically reduced. We concur that this is more than meat and potatoes stuff to think about.

Dinner was meatballs, mashed potatoes, with gravy, bread and butter, salad too, Bobbi is a great cook.

[₣яэđĸĊ]

Thanks for the link. A strictly blonde moment... "Oooh pretty!"

We get occasional man-made shows down here, tho much smaller in scale. The launches from Vandenberg, leave trails waaaay the hell up and gone. Because they cover a huge vertical strip of the sky, there is almost alway some piece of the trail with the proper angle to the sun for this effect. Beautiful pics though.

Back to the firmament for a sec... makes me wonder if earth wasn't, at some point, heavily covered, more like how venus is described, only using water. This size of event would no doubt need some trigger. (going further out on the limb) Perhaps some "Mars-aforming" event, or the like?

PS: Monday is the wife's day to stop by a local rest home, visit with an old friend of ours, and take her stuff. so we did quick and dirty. stir-fry chicken and veggies. Tonite, Paul Newman and I are makin' sgetti. ;)

[Norval]

Over the generations mankind has managed to discover many things about our true nature along with the ability to learn very fast. After all, our life span was originally "forever". Then cut down to just under a thousand years. Well that got cut in half to about 520 years (thats after the flood) , yet that wasn't enough to keep us from learning who what and why were here and were created in the first place. We get whacked with a couple more genetic alterations that take us to about 120 years, and finally to what we have today of 70 - 80 years. Still the truth becomes known even in the face of such adversarial forces. Not too bad for mankind I would say, we were created with some amazing tenacity for wanting to know the truth.

Taken from this article (http://earthsbanner.com/TheCalling.html).

Yes, the document (bible) clearly states that the earth had a much denser cloud canopy prior to the flood and in several places this is referenced. Topical research or word searches in computer bibles reveals the truths that are in that document about many things.

[Heretic]

Thinking on these lines, the sun has been acting up in various ways for a while and is getting more intense etc. The earth and all planets react via expansion and lava starts pressing upwards causing conduction warming and an increase in earthquakes and eruptions. Evaporation increases and more water enters the atmosphere causing phenomenon. Water is also the most effective greenhouse gas making carbon insignificant. But the result is not global warming nor an ice age but simply more extreme weather that will be probably be getting much worse as we approach zero point.

Are chemtrails are meant to mitigate these events (among other things) and the atmospheric reactions that go against an agenda?

[₣яэđĸĊ]

Are chemtrails meant to mitigate these events
"It's not nice to fool Mother Nature." I wouldn't even date her sister.

I should really go find the link to this news story again, but...

I read a few months ago that t'was recently discovered our solar system tends to rise and fall from the center line of our galaxy.

That being at the center line was our best spot, since it put the most matter between us and the major sources of radiation. The story went on to say that we rise or fall below this line about every 62 million years, and that the last time we reached that spot was ... 62 million years ago when the dynosaurs went away.

This added radiation would change the sun, our weather, and .... when you consider that other planets hereabout are also heating up, it sure sounds a lot more plausible than blaming me driving around in my V-8 Mustang.

Besides, I'm looking for a good excuse to keep the Mustang.

[Norval]

Heretic,
Yes, we have seen an increase in the severity of weather, but I wonder at the true cause of some of it.

Fred,
If I remember your statement above, passing through the center line brings down the radiation we get from the galactic as a whole. We are now in that center point of least radiation. So, we won't have to worry much about big changes because of that in the next few thousand years I would guess.

Oh, and by the way, I have serious doubts about the dating of many things in earths history as presented by academia, but that's another thread.
P.S. Keep the Stang, , , and the last of the turkey for lunch today. :bananen_smilies018:

[sfth13]

I thought when we drifted to the centerline there was more energy that's why everthing is getting warmer and as we drift out of the centerline into ..for lack of a better term open space. is when it got cooler.. but then again how do know where the centerline is if we have never left the solar system:bananen_smilies077:

[sfth13]

Oh, and by the way, I have serious doubts about the dating of many things in earths history as presented by academia, but that's another thread.today. :bananen_smilies018:

I was just reading about this today... the carbon dating thing.. and polonium halos
:detective:

[Heretic]

I have my doubts on carbon dating too...now I am a armchair scientist but isn't cosmic rays a method of determining carbon date

they use the cosmic ray presence as a mathematical constant do they not?

how can cosmic ray exposure be constant when the past is riddled with cosmic events?

so basically any and every cosmic ray bombardment ages whatever it touches in the microscope of the modern scientist

concerning polonium...I have been watching the scientific creationalist with interest for a while now and really dont know what to make of their stuff. Is it really science or selective science towards an agenda?

[Swami Salami]

I have my doubts on carbon dating too...now I am a armchair scientist but isn't cosmic rays a method of determining carbon date

they use the cosmic ray presence as a mathematical constant do they not?

how can cosmic ray exposure be constant when the past is riddled with cosmic events?

so basically any and every cosmic ray bombardment ages whatever it touches in the microscope of the modern scientist

concerning polonium...I have been watching the scientific creationalist with interest for a while now and really dont know what to make of their stuff. Is it really science or selective science towards an agenda?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating

[Heretic]

From Wiki:



Carbon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon) has two stable, nonradioactive isotopes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotope): carbon-12 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon-12) (12C), and carbon-13 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon-13) (13C). In addition, there are trace amounts of the unstable isotope carbon-14 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon-14) (14C) on Earth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth). Carbon-14 has a half-life (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-life) of 5730 years and would have long ago vanished from Earth were it not for the unremitting cosmic ray (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_ray) impacts on nitrogen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen) in the Earth's atmosphere (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_atmosphere), which create more of the isotope. The neutrons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron) resulting from the cosmic ray interactions participate in the following nuclear reaction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_reaction) on the atoms of nitrogen molecules (N2) in the atmospheric air:
yeah this is what I am talking about:

unremitting cosmic ray (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_ray) impacts

ARE they using it as a consistent bombardment and not a fluctuating one?

or am I totally off base on this?

[sfth13]

here's what I was reading:

Carbon Dating - The Controversy
Carbon dating is controversial for a couple of reasons. First of all, it's predicated upon a set of questionable assumptions. We have to assume, for example, that the rate of decay (that is, a 5,730 year half-life) has remained constant throughout the unobservable past. However, there is strong evidence which suggests that radioactive decay may have been greatly accelerated in the unobservable past.1 We must also assume that the ratio of C-12 to C-14 in the atmosphere has remained constant throughout the unobservable past (so we can know what the ratio was at the time of the specimen's death). And yet we know that "radiocarbon is forming 28-37% faster than it is decaying,"2 which means it hasn't yet reached equilibrium, which means the ratio is higher today than it was in the unobservable past. We also know that the ratio decreased during the industrial revolution due to the dramatic increase of CO2 produced by factories. This man-made fluctuation wasn't a natural occurrence, but it demonstrates the fact that fluctuation is possible and that a period of natural upheaval upon the earth could greatly affect the ratio. Volcanoes spew out CO2 which could just as effectively decrease the ratio. Specimens which lived and died during a period of intense volcanism would appear older than they really are if they were dated using this technique. The ratio can further be affected by C-14 production rates in the atmosphere, which in turn is affected by the amount of cosmic rays penetrating the earth's atmosphere. The amount of cosmic rays penetrating the earth's atmosphere is itself affected by things like the earth's magnetic field which deflects cosmic rays. Precise measurements taken over the last 140 years have shown a steady decay in the strength of the earth's magnetic field. This means there's been a steady increase in radiocarbon production (which would increase the ratio).

http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/carbon-dating.htm

it's funny I know a litttle bit about alot but not enough about any.. :bananen_smilies029:

[Swami Salami]

Yep, this is out of proportions for me to..............ZORGOOOOON, get your ass overhere..........:bananen_smilies018:

[sfth13]

same here Swami.... trying to figure it out is the fun part.... only problem is you don't get much sleep. :bananen_smilies050:

[Heretic]

Specimens which lived and died during a period of intense volcanism would appear older than they really are if they were dated using this technique.

it's funny I know a litttle bit about alot but not enough about any.. :bananen_smilies029:

hehe thats me; jack of all trades master of none

Concerning volcanism would they have not figured this anomaly out in places like pompeii and herculaneum?

from wiki


Using carbon dating, the oldest layer has been dated to the 8th-6th centuries BC, about the time that the city was founded. The other two layers are separated from the other layers by well-developed soil layers or Roman pavement and were laid in the 4th century BC and 2nd century BC.

[sfth13]

I guess they would have to know how long ago the volcanoes were active and for how long. I guess it would be hard to get constant when all the inputs are always changing... but what do I know. :bananen_smilies063:

[Gary]

I read something a while ago and I can't find it anymore but our atmosphere is being bombarded with water orbs as big as houses, thousands of them and it was suggested they where guided or aimed because they always miss the sattelites, these water orbs are coming from space and not from Earth, have any of you guy's read anything along these lines?:bananen_smilies015:

[Swami Salami]

[Norval]

If you haven't read the books by Charles Fort, long read of four books, he mentions puzzling things like fish (thousands of tons of the same type and size), snails, frogs, and many other things falling from the sky. Like the bottom of some huge transport just opened up or some transporter function failed on where to transport them to? There is mention of odd rains and things of this nature also, Fort's books are from the late 1920's as he died in 1932 I think, , ,

Great little boat in that video, , , grins

[unipax]

interesting posts
thanks all

[Swami Salami]

[Heretic]

What do you space researchers think of the "Electric Universe" theory? Fact, fiction, mis-direction, dis-info?

[sfth13]

What do you space researchers think of the "Electric Universe" theory? Fact, fiction, mis-direction, dis-info?

I never really thought about it until I read your post...so now I have something else to look into:detective: I found this info on Electric Universe..

http://www.kronia.com/electric.html

Have you found any other info?

[Heretic]

cool new link thanks

http://www.thunderbolts.info/home.htm

this is the one that rense refers to alot

[sfth13]

thank you! I just downloaded the Electric universe fron the link you provided 10mb and 40 pages.. I haven't read so much in all my life..:rofl: something else to drive my friends crazy with...:bananen_smilies092:

[₣яэđĸĊ]

Oh, and by the way, I have serious doubts about the dating of many things in earths history as presented by academia, but that's another thread.
Yup.
Thats the other direction this takes. If by having, then losing some dense cloud cover thick enough to change the rate of aging, it also would skew all the results of carbon dating, and such. There is somewhere to look for evidence of this change, a scant 240,000 miles away ;)

One tale told is that the Earth and Moon came about "roughly" at the same time. Or that the moon is:
* A stray we picked up along the way,
* Ejecta from a bad strike. Planet X, or some such unknown critter throwing off matter which is then captured in orbit.

Pick your poison they all share a problem. The ~900 lbs. of rock we hauled back in the Apollo program carbon dates between 900 million, and 1.5 billion years older than earth.

It means either something is skewed in the carbon dating process, or the notion both bodies came about at the same time.

If you take the earth's age at ~4.5 billion years,
Assume the moons is the same, then
1/6 the atmosphere skews the carbon dating process 25%. (did I do that right? or am I having a Sr. moment?)


sfth13;
it's funny I know a litttle bit about alot but not enough about any..

Swami;
Yep, this is out of proportions for me to..............ZORGOOOOON, get your ass overhere.

Way the hell above my pay grade too! But... that's where the fun is.

[Norval]

ahhh yes, the EU theory, or Electric Universe BS. Look up crater chains and check out their speculation about it. Yep, still just some natural cause made them, only this time it is electric arching! !, , uhhh huhhhh sure, just like a comet or hunk of space rock breaking up and making these CS crater chains. BS. :bsflag:


Two things prevent electrical arching.
1. Distance
2. Vacuum

Space is full of both. :rofl:

[sfth13]

yep being a welder I know about the distance and arching... But I had no idea about the vacume.. ya learn something new everyday

[unipax]

When I firt heard of E. U. theory, I thought OK, that's plausible.

Then I heard N&G Crater Chain theory, and it fit Solar System war theory.
Then I thought, why cannot E. U. and N&G both be true, since the cratering patterns are different.
Now I'm hearing that distance and vacuum preclude E U theory.
ok, dang. whats next?

[Gale]

Little Red Riding Hood wasn’t a virgin and that wasn’t candy she was giving to Granny.
The Candy Man built the witch’s house that Hansel and Gretel got addicted to.
The cow was taken around the moon, the hardest part was his landing.
:bananen_smilies077:

Actually a bit about the Brothers Grimm that wrote Grimm's Fairy Tales:


The German brothers Wilhelm and Jacob Grimm spent years collecting and researching folk tales early in the 19th century. They published Children's and Household Tales in 1812, a collection which became known as "Grimm's Fairy Tales."


Another important collection, until recently little known to English-speaking scholars, was their Deutsche Sagen (1816-18; 2nd edn. 1865-6); it covers historical and local legends and those about supernatural beings, which provide many parallels to English legends about fairies, witches, hauntings, treasures, etc. Jacob Grimm's Destsche Mythologie (1835; final edn. 1875-8) was an erudite discussion covering the folklore and medieval writings of all Germanic countries, encouraging folklorists to interpret supernatural beings (e.g. water-spirits, or the Wild Hunt) as former divinities.


The Brothers Grimm (http://www.answers.com/topic/the-brothers-grimm)
:svengo:

[Norval]

Yup.
Thats the other direction this takes. If by having, then losing some dense cloud cover thick enough to change the rate of aging, it also would skew all the results of carbon dating, and such. There is somewhere to look for evidence of this change, a scant 240,000 miles away ;)

One tale told is that the Earth and Moon came about "roughly" at the same time. Or that the moon is:
* A stray we picked up along the way,
* Ejecta from a bad strike. Planet X, or some such unknown critter throwing off matter which is then captured in orbit.

Pick your poison they all share a problem. The ~900 lbs. of rock we hauled back in the Apollo program carbon dates between 900 million, and 1.5 billion years older than earth.

It means either something is skewed in the carbon dating process, or the notion both bodies came about at the same time.

If you take the earth's age at ~4.5 billion years,
Assume the moons is the same, then
1/6 the atmosphere skews the carbon dating process 25%. (did I do that right? or am I having a Sr. moment?)




Way the hell above my pay grade too! But... that's where the fun is.

There is evidence in the Document that seems to indicate it took about 40,000 years to terra form our planet, and that is when it was in a heavy water laden cloud layer.

Just a little more to think about, , ,

[₣яэđĸĊ]

There is evidence in the Document that seems to indicate it took about 40,000 years to terra form our planet, and that is when it was in a heavy water laden cloud layer.

Just a little more to think about, , ,

Cool thought... thanx.

Incidentally... Welcome back me! :D

The last storm that went thru LA also caused a power spike that went thru my main puter.
So this is a cobbled together from parts machine, until after christmas.

Wife has cleverly committed every loose dime towards g-kid xmas presents.
So... I wait until the money backs up again.

[Norval]

Yes, Welcome Back Fred, , , :)
As many do, I question the accuracy of the time of many so called past events in earth's history and that of mankind. It is a "given" that bad ETs would want to deceive us in this matter of truth about our past, and theirs.

Concerning the time periods about the earth's terra forming in the Document I base my estimates on this. The creator(s) entered the "day of rest" after creating mankind at the end of the creating "week", or 6th day. So we are in the 7th day now. The creator(s) don't come out of that day of rest till after the 1,000 year rulership by Jesus. We know that mankind has been on earth for sure at least 6,000 years, that plus the 1,000 year rule of King Jesus would make it the end of the day of rest, or 7,000 year long day of rest. Now we know that a "work day" was 7,000 years long and so 6 x 7 = 42, or 42,000 years for the life that has lived and died up to 6,000 years ago.

Now we are at about the 48,000 year mark into the terra forming and life present on the planet today.

Hope that was presented ok, , ,

This pooter is about 4-5 years old now and time for a new one, but had to get a car so now the new pooter will be in jan feb next year. Gale is about due for a new one too.

[unipax]

raining fish & frogs .....

in 1860s or so, officials and citizens in a town somewhere (Ohio?) in America all signed a statement. It said they witnessed a reddish cloud pass overhead. Dropping from the red cloud were thin slices of flesh with short black hairs or bristles still attached.
This was in the book "Strange World" by Frank Edwards